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The Official US Politics OT

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Baalzamon said:
The problem with that mindset is that people wouldn't be happy until the billionaires have $0 left.

The billionaires give...billions to extremely helpful charities (and no, it isn't to just get a tax break. The math behind giving $2 to save $0.80 in taxes just doesn't add up as so many people seem to think).

Do they live more lucratively than they could? They absolutely do. Many billionaires are even for potentially raising taxes (Bill Gates himself isn't against a higher tax rate on the wealthy, nor is Warren Buffett).

But once again, you are constantly changing your argument here. This all started because you said rich people haven't worked a day in their lives (when other than the very few wealthy people who inherited enormous wealth, they obtained their very wealth by doing just that...working). You then converted this to they haven't worked hard in their entire lives.

Now you have converted to just saying the Billionaires could give more to help, but they give nothing. Not only did I never insinuate billionaires don't have money to help further, but you are once again wrong in saying they just don't help at all. They absolutely do.

Our problems I think boils down to a lot more of fundamental basics on how to get through adulthood vs just having the wealthy distribute even more dollars to the poor. Eventually, (and I know this is somewhat of a slippery slope), you could tax the wealthy with extreme rates (say 90%), but you will still have people in poverty. No matter how much you redistribute wealth, there will always be some people in poverty, especially when many people simply don't understand the basic mechanics of handling the money that they do have.

Look, I'm all for the betterment of society as a whole, I just really don't think this complete attack on the Uber wealthy (even if I do believe they should have SOME more taxes) will accomplish remotely close to what people seem to be envisioning.

I'm not saying make them bankrupt, I'm saying that they should be helping others get out of poverty, instead of screwing them over like Trump and Epstein have.



Some days I just blow up.

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CaptainExplosion said:
Jumpin said:

Here's something for you CaptainExplosion:

It's been in the tabloids lately that Turkey's Erdogan has some dirt on Jared Kushner that may implicate Trump in the conspiracy for the murder of Jamal Khashoggi. It certainly lines up with the events reported on by general news sources in that Kushner has repeatedly tried to accuse Khashoggi as a terrorist. The suggested dirt is a recorded phone conversation between Kushner and the Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman.

Granted, tabloids are often not correct in their news, they are also often to first to break the majority of scandals to the press.

What if Erdogan used that information to persuade Trump to pull troops from Syria to allow the attacks on his (Erdogan's) enemies to occur?

If so then it's yet another reason somebody needs to blow Erdogan's brains out.

So you think he's going to blackmail Ivanka's mouth into blowing his brains out?



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Jumpin said:
CaptainExplosion said:

If so then it's yet another reason somebody needs to blow Erdogan's brains out.

So you think he's going to blackmail Ivanka's mouth into blowing his brains out?

You do realize I meant killing Erdogan, right?



Some days I just blow up.

For what it is worth, I don't think Trump really belongs in the same discussion regarding a what's wrong with the majority of rich people.

For one, I'd hardly qualify him as extremely wealthy by his own means. He is one that inherited a fortune, and quite frankly, really hasn't done much of anything with it.

For another, there is huge discrepancy regarding how much he is really worth, and I'd say the lower end of the spectrum is likely much more accurate, knowing how much he acts like a bozo.

He also seems quite substantially more selfish with his money than many of the Uber wealthy, who as I've discussed have either donated billions already, or pledged to donate a substantial portion of their money towards charitable organizations.

There will always be super shitty people, no matter where you look...and you can't really judge an entire class of people just off of these shitty peoples actions.



Money can't buy happiness. Just video games, which make me happy.

I actually really like your discussion regarding further systematic issues in our education. What I find probably most interesting about this is I feel like we continue to get worse and worse. It seems like they only take more "real life" type education away from normal schooling each year, rather than adding more in. This is despite many people continually arguing that it is blatantly missing.

So why do we continue having education be less and less relevant? Is it really a cost thing? Something tells me it wouldn't cost anymore to teach personal finance to young adults than it would to teach Astronomy,

This problem is like a result of schooling being so based on centralized testing scores nowadays (and it's obviously relatively difficult to judge/score real life skills), and it quite frankly appears like a schools number 1 goal is just to get higher scores on standardized testing, which really aren't at all indicative of ability to succeed in life. I don't think money alone would really fix this, as money (and having tests dictate if a school has earned certain funding per pupil) already led to a scenario like what we have.



Money can't buy happiness. Just video games, which make me happy.

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Baalzamon said:
For what it is worth, I don't think Trump really belongs in the same discussion regarding a what's wrong with the majority of rich people.

For one, I'd hardly qualify him as extremely wealthy by his own means. He is one that inherited a fortune, and quite frankly, really hasn't done much of anything with it.

For another, there is huge discrepancy regarding how much he is really worth, and I'd say the lower end of the spectrum is likely much more accurate, knowing how much he acts like a bozo.

He also seems quite substantially more selfish with his money than many of the Uber wealthy, who as I've discussed have either donated billions already, or pledged to donate a substantial portion of their money towards charitable organizations.

There will always be super shitty people, no matter where you look...and you can't really judge an entire class of people just off of these shitty peoples actions.

Forgot to mention that Jeff Bezos hasn't paid any taxes since 2017, and now he's the richest person in the world.

HE GOT RICHER BY CHEATING HIS TAXES.



Some days I just blow up.

CaptainExplosion said:
Baalzamon said:
For what it is worth, I don't think Trump really belongs in the same discussion regarding a what's wrong with the majority of rich people.

For one, I'd hardly qualify him as extremely wealthy by his own means. He is one that inherited a fortune, and quite frankly, really hasn't done much of anything with it.

For another, there is huge discrepancy regarding how much he is really worth, and I'd say the lower end of the spectrum is likely much more accurate, knowing how much he acts like a bozo.

He also seems quite substantially more selfish with his money than many of the Uber wealthy, who as I've discussed have either donated billions already, or pledged to donate a substantial portion of their money towards charitable organizations.

There will always be super shitty people, no matter where you look...and you can't really judge an entire class of people just off of these shitty peoples actions.

Forgot to mention that Jeff Bezos hasn't paid any taxes since 2017, and now he's the richest person in the world.

HE GOT RICHER BY CHEATING HIS TAXES.

Source on where Jeff Bezos paid $0 in personal income taxes since 2017? I'm not aware of any info of the sort being released. Amazon may not have paid any, but that is a business. We aren't talking about businesses and their current tax burdens. We are talking about people who individually themselves are very wealthy and how much they as an individual pay in taxes.



Money can't buy happiness. Just video games, which make me happy.

And if you know absolutely nothing about taxes, you shouldn't complain about businesses paying no taxes when the inherent cause is generally carry forward losses.

It's really a pretty simple concept, but many people struggle to grasp it (as they only look at current numbers).

If Amazon lost $10B in 2015 (fictitious number), and then makes $2.5B in 2016, 2017, 2018, and 2019. They've made in total $0 (therefore should pay $0 in taxes or else they would be getting punished by the government for not even making an overall profit). They, however, will pay $0 in taxes in 2016-2019.

They don't receive a gigantic refund from the federal government for losing $10B in 2015. Instead they get to carry these losses forward to offset gains in future years. It overall nets to where the company only pays taxes on true total cumulative income.

The news articles etc that want to completely misinform the population generally fail to explain this concept to people (which is a concept that makes perfect sense).

Amazon hasn't cheated on their taxes at all. They've simply followed the tax law as it was appropriately written.



Money can't buy happiness. Just video games, which make me happy.

Jumpin said:
CaptainExplosion said:

If so then it's yet another reason somebody needs to blow Erdogan's brains out.

So you think he's going to blackmail Ivanka's mouth into blowing his brains out?

Which one? The one on his shoulders or the one between his legs?



Baalzamon said:
And if you know absolutely nothing about taxes, you shouldn't complain about businesses paying no taxes when the inherent cause is generally carry forward losses.

It's really a pretty simple concept, but many people struggle to grasp it (as they only look at current numbers).

If Amazon lost $10B in 2015 (fictitious number), and then makes $2.5B in 2016, 2017, 2018, and 2019. They've made in total $0 (therefore should pay $0 in taxes or else they would be getting punished by the government for not even making an overall profit). They, however, will pay $0 in taxes in 2016-2019.

They don't receive a gigantic refund from the federal government for losing $10B in 2015. Instead they get to carry these losses forward to offset gains in future years. It overall nets to where the company only pays taxes on true total cumulative income.

The news articles etc that want to completely misinform the population generally fail to explain this concept to people (which is a concept that makes perfect sense).

Amazon hasn't cheated on their taxes at all. They've simply followed the tax law as it was appropriately written.

Pretty sure I remember hearing in a YouTube vid about Amazon that it hasn't actually made money until recently, which is why they haven't been paying taxes. I personally don't know how you legitimately say that a businessman is rich if they don't fully own their own business and are out of debt. Living off of other people's money is welfare.

Below, I'm not taking into account the fewer rich and elite who've been handed down massive amounts of money, or lucky people who win's lotteries, etc. However, even if these wealthy people aren't doing much with the wealth, odds are part of their parents goal was to pass it down to them, which is part of the reason why they worked to acquire it in the first place, so.

As for the capitalism vs socialism talk about money, there's no solid answer. If you take or cap some of the rich's money, that only lasts for a while before it becomes normalized, and then it will be time to take even more. No different than how it's never enough for some of those businessman. Once they have a lot, it's ok for a while, but then they want even more.

The reason why you don't want to interfere too much with the rich is because you can very well screw yourself over with socialism. If you take too much from a businessman, some will pack up their business and leave, taking it to another country who will allow them to continue as they were for the most part. Just look at what China is doing specifically for Tesla right now. Many countries would kill to have some former American businesses headquartered there.

If those big businesses leave, there goes those taxes, and even worse, those businesses now have great products that are likely much cheaper now, so your countries people still buy them, sending their money out of the country even more so. While some of the medium size businesses will grow and make up for some of the losses, many will not since there won't be the drive to do so. Why try and grow, if most of that profit is taken away and given to everyone else? Why try and grow if you can never stand a chance of catching the companies that left?

It's also known that in companies, a small amount of the most efficient employee's, do a lot more than their far share of the work, and it isn't linear as a company grows. The bigger the company is, the smaller the percentage of people doing more than their fair share. There's a name for this but I forget it.

For many of the businesses and best employees that stay, they slowly start to give up. Why physically work harder, think harder, have more patience and make better decisions, if you're not worth much more, if at all, than your coworkers? This leads to production and efficiency dropping considerably, so less money being made by those companies to be taxed.

There are also the employee's who spend their time just getting by at work, doing just enough to keep their job but nothing more. There's no doubt when the top employee's start slacking off due to more equal pay, those typical slackers, will try to slack even more and maintain the employee performance gap. They got away with it this entire time, why should anything change now?

One way or another it leads to everyone being more financially equal, but equally poor. The other way around with capitalism, over time, is for some to be poor, some to be lower middle class, some to be upper middle class, some to be rich, and some to be elite. The thing is that the poor in a capitalist system end up much better off then the poor in a socialist system, so it's hard to deny which is the more welcome outcome. Obviously nobody being poor would be great, but the world doesn't work like that unfortunately. Strong animals thrive, while they watch others starve. Life is complicated and tough.



The Canadian National Anthem According To Justin Trudeau

 

Oh planet Earth! The home of native lands, 
True social law, in all of us demand.
With cattle farts, we view sea rise,
Our North sinking slowly.
From far and snide, oh planet Earth, 
Our healthcare is yours free!
Science save our land, harnessing the breeze,
Oh planet Earth, smoke weed and ferment yeast.
Oh planet Earth, ell gee bee queue and tee.