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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Why a Joy-Con-less Switch model is a terrible idea

TheMisterManGuy said:
Jumpin said:
I didn't realize anyone was even arguing that it would be a good idea.

There are quite a few people who keep pitching this idea believe it or not. And every time they do, I just have to roll my eyes at how out-of-touch these people are with the market. 

Haha, I see now.

I suspect they're concern trolling and straight up troll-trolling.

But anyway, Nintendo COULD release a console like that, but why dump all the money into creating a piece of hardware that will probably do more to confuse old parents and impulse buyers than to find a new base of happy customers.

Yes, Nintendo did release the 2DS, but that was largely responding to a widescale demand from parents who wanted to get a new handheld for their young children - since there was widescale panic from tabloids about 3DS potentially capable of blinding children. There isn't any such demand for some kind of non-Switch Switch. Also, 3DS to 2DS is an easy product name, I don't think the "Non-Switch" is a very appealing sounding product for anyone. Additionally, the 2DS is capable of playing all the 3DS games, since 3D was not essential to gameplay; this is not true about the Joy Cons, which are the only controllers that work with every game on the Switch.

Last edited by Jumpin - on 24 December 2018

I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

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Helloplite said:
The OT seems to assume automatically that attached joycons means you somehow can't still buy detachable joycons with the same functionality as before. Why would Nintendo remove Bluetooth from such a model?

There would be no functionality loss whatsoever.

Well I hope those kiddos are okay with paying $80 for a pair of Joy-Con vs having that functionality out of the box. 



I just have a hard time believing that with how successful the 3DS is that they're going to drop that market completely. I think it would be a mistake however to launch a new 3DS type of device independent from the Switch.



Disagree with OP points:

1. Software compatibility is not issue, last few Nintendo handhelds revisions didnt had 100% software compatibility, so point that you cant play few games while you can still play 99% of games is not deal breaker and never was for Nintendo.
2. This is similar point like software compatibility, 99% of game has/will have classic support controls, not isues in any case.
3. This wouldnt be any problem, this would be just one low price point revision and one offer of "Switch family" for people who want cheap device that they would play only in handheld mode. You want TV Mode, multiplayer, Labo, 1,2 Switch..no problem, you can easily chouse more expansive Switch revision that will offer all that.


Some people look at "Switch" only like one device with hybrid concept, "Switch" represents concept but at end its just a name, I am pretty sure that Nintendo at "Switch" looks like hole platform that will have multiply different kind of revisions instead of just single device. Namings like Switch Mini/Pocket/Go/Lite/TV...despite point some of those revisions will not have full hybrid concept will not stop Nintendo from releasing that kind of revisions, for them is far more important to expand apealing and price points of "Switch family" than stick just to one naming and concept, at end most important is that all those revisions could play Switch games (at around 99% of them).
People need to realise that Switch is only platform for Nintendo going forward now when 3DS dies, and Nintendo would definitely want to expand Switch appealing on market in any case and that includes different type revisions and price point on market, for comparision Switch currently has only one version that costs $300 while 3DS covers price point from $80 to $200 with different type of revisions, Nintendo will want to do something similar with Switch especially when 3DS is next year and they will not have low price point offer on market any more, and low price point Switch Mini/Pocket would perfectly fit.

But why Joy-Con less? Simple, built in controls instead of detachable Joy Cons (of course that wouldn't be only cost save) would gave biggest cost save for Nintendo and that would automatically means much lower price point compared to current version. Such a device would be aimed to be personally device, in other words device per person instead of device per house, so cheap Switch version for people that want only handheld play or for parents that would buy device per each of their kids. This would not be issue in any case simple because you would still have regular Switch if you want full Switch experience but for more money offcourse.

Also its not only point about low price point Switch Mini/Pocket, but Switch TV is also possible, it would basically be something similar like Vita TV for people that wants only home console play.

Last edited by Miyamotoo - on 25 December 2018

TheMisterManGuy said:
Helloplite said:
The OT seems to assume automatically that attached joycons means you somehow can't still buy detachable joycons with the same functionality as before. Why would Nintendo remove Bluetooth from such a model?

There would be no functionality loss whatsoever.

Well I hope those kiddos are okay with paying $80 for a pair of Joy-Con vs having that functionality out of the box. 

Not an actual argument. It's the same thing for many other products. Parents who have more than one child will likely buy them, especially if the system is cheaper.



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Wouldn't be worth it.
Even at the light of the 3ds they only actually made 2 circuit boards- one for 3ds and one for N3ds'.



Miyamotoo said:

Disagree with OP points:

1. Software compatibility is not issue, last few Nintendo handhelds revisions didnt had 100% software compatibility, so point that you cant play few games while you can still play 99% of games is not deal breaker and never was for Nintendo.
2. This is similar point like software compatibility, 99% of game has/will have classic support controls, not isues in any case.
3. This wouldnt be any problem, this would be just one low price point revision and one offer of "Switch family" for people who want cheap device that they would play only in handheld mode. You want TV Mode, multiplayer, Labo, 1,2 Switch..no problem, you can easily chouse more expansive Switch revision that will offer all that.


Some people look at "Switch" only like one device with hybrid concept, "Switch" represents concept but at end its just a name, I am pretty sure that Nintendo at "Switch" looks like hole platform that will have multiply different kind of revisions instead of just single device. Namings like Switch Mini/Pocket/Go/Lite/TV...despite point some of those revisions will not have full hybrid concept will not stop Nintendo from releasing that kind of revisions, for them is far more important to expand apealing and price points of "Switch family" than stick just to one naming and concept, at end most important is that all those revisions could play Switch games (at around 99% of them).

People need to realise that Switch is only platform for Nintendo going forward now when 3DS dies, and Nintendo would definitely want to expand Switch appealing on market in any case and that includes different type revisions and price point on market, for comparision Switch currently has only one version that costs $300 while 3DS covers price point from $80 to $200 with different type of revisions, Nintendo will want to do something similar with Switch especially when 3DS is next year and they will not have low price point offer on market any more, and low price point Switch Mini/Pocket would perfectly fit.

But why Joy-Con less? Simple, built in controls instead of detachable Joy Cons (of course that wouldn't be only cost save) would gave biggest cost save for Nintendo and that would automatically means much lower price point compared to current version. Such a device would be aimed to be personally device, in other words device per person instead of device per house, so cheap Switch version for people that want only handheld play or for parents that would buy device per each of their kids. This would not be issue in any case simple because you would still have regular Switch if you want full Switch experience but for more money offcourse.

Also its not only point about low price point Switch Mini/Pocket, but Switch TV is also possible, it would basically be something similar like Vita TV for people that wants only home console play.

1. This is different from the 2 games that required the GBA slot on the DS. The Joy-Con are THE image of the Switch whether you like it or not. They're the Dual Screen and Wii Remote of the system. You can't take them away because they're part of the console's identity in every fashion.

2. Except it is an issue because it stiffles what kinds of games developers can make. There's already several games on Switch that don't use handheld mode, and those numbers will only grow further along the system's life.

3. Then what would be the point of this model in the first place if people will inevitably just get the "real" Switch?

 

The Switch is selling well BECAUSE it's not your typical mobile device. I don't get this obsession with trying to turn the Switch into something its not, or trying to suck all the originality out of it just for the sake of cynical profits. I get Nintendo is a business, but they're also notoriously stubborn. They're not going to undermine the entire point of the console just to appease a minority, not when the concept has already caught on and people are using it in the way the company intended. 

3DS is obviously a lower priced product, but Nintendo can still always offer a cheaper Switch by just waiting out a price cut and/or introducing newer, better models every so often (2-3 years), as they drive the cost of the previous models down further and further. That, or sell a dock-less Switch bundle, but still keep the Joy-Con. I know what you're going to say "Doesn't the dock also kill the point of the Switch?" Not really. At it's core, TV mode is essentially Tabletop mode outputted to a larger screen. Taking away the dock doesn't take away the gameplay and control possibilities of the Switch because that's what the Joy-Con are for, and all of those can still be used undocked. Tabletop mode exists for this very reason. 

A Joy-Con-less Switch is just a stupid idea, no matter how much money you think it'll save, it's not happening, at least not this early in the Switch's life. I could maybe see this being a silly novelty towards the end of its life like the Game Boy Micro was, but that's the only scenario I could see this existing in any fashion. 



For those who are for the Switch mini, Joy-Conless console, or what not, I have a question. How would you change the Switch logo, which is synonymous to the console itself, if a Joy-Conless console were to be a thing? The clicking sound, the two Joy Cons, and what not.



Kai_Mao said:
For those who are for the Switch mini, Joy-Conless console, or what not, I have a question. How would you change the Switch logo, which is synonymous to the console itself, if a Joy-Conless console were to be a thing? The clicking sound, the two Joy Cons, and what not.

Just keep it the same, the only thing they need to do is state that it's a different form factor of the existing system.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

TheMisterManGuy said:
Miyamotoo said:

Disagree with OP points:

1. Software compatibility is not issue, last few Nintendo handhelds revisions didnt had 100% software compatibility, so point that you cant play few games while you can still play 99% of games is not deal breaker and never was for Nintendo.
2. This is similar point like software compatibility, 99% of game has/will have classic support controls, not isues in any case.
3. This wouldnt be any problem, this would be just one low price point revision and one offer of "Switch family" for people who want cheap device that they would play only in handheld mode. You want TV Mode, multiplayer, Labo, 1,2 Switch..no problem, you can easily chouse more expansive Switch revision that will offer all that.


Some people look at "Switch" only like one device with hybrid concept, "Switch" represents concept but at end its just a name, I am pretty sure that Nintendo at "Switch" looks like hole platform that will have multiply different kind of revisions instead of just single device. Namings like Switch Mini/Pocket/Go/Lite/TV...despite point some of those revisions will not have full hybrid concept will not stop Nintendo from releasing that kind of revisions, for them is far more important to expand apealing and price points of "Switch family" than stick just to one naming and concept, at end most important is that all those revisions could play Switch games (at around 99% of them).

People need to realise that Switch is only platform for Nintendo going forward now when 3DS dies, and Nintendo would definitely want to expand Switch appealing on market in any case and that includes different type revisions and price point on market, for comparision Switch currently has only one version that costs $300 while 3DS covers price point from $80 to $200 with different type of revisions, Nintendo will want to do something similar with Switch especially when 3DS is next year and they will not have low price point offer on market any more, and low price point Switch Mini/Pocket would perfectly fit.

But why Joy-Con less? Simple, built in controls instead of detachable Joy Cons (of course that wouldn't be only cost save) would gave biggest cost save for Nintendo and that would automatically means much lower price point compared to current version. Such a device would be aimed to be personally device, in other words device per person instead of device per house, so cheap Switch version for people that want only handheld play or for parents that would buy device per each of their kids. This would not be issue in any case simple because you would still have regular Switch if you want full Switch experience but for more money offcourse.

Also its not only point about low price point Switch Mini/Pocket, but Switch TV is also possible, it would basically be something similar like Vita TV for people that wants only home console play.

1. This is different from the 2 games that required the GBA slot on the DS. The Joy-Con are THE image of the Switch whether you like it or not. They're the Dual Screen and Wii Remote of the system. You can't take them away because they're part of the console's identity in every fashion.

2. Except it is an issue because it stiffles what kinds of games developers can make. There's already several games on Switch that don't use handheld mode, and those numbers will only grow further along the system's life.

3. Then what would be the point of this model in the first place if people will inevitably just get the "real" Switch?

 

The Switch is selling well BECAUSE it's not your typical mobile device. I don't get this obsession with trying to turn the Switch into something its not, or trying to suck all the originality out of it just for the sake of cynical profits. I get Nintendo is a business, but they're also notoriously stubborn. They're not going to undermine the entire point of the console just to appease a minority, not when the concept has already caught on and people are using it in the way the company intended. 

3DS is obviously a lower priced product, but Nintendo can still always offer a cheaper Switch by just waiting out a price cut and/or introducing newer, better models every so often (2-3 years), as they drive the cost of the previous models down further and further. That, or sell a dock-less Switch bundle, but still keep the Joy-Con. I know what you're going to say "Doesn't the dock also kill the point of the Switch?" Not really. At it's core, TV mode is essentially Tabletop mode outputted to a larger screen. Taking away the dock doesn't take away the gameplay and control possibilities of the Switch because that's what the Joy-Con are for, and all of those can still be used undocked. Tabletop mode exists for this very reason. 

A Joy-Con-less Switch is just a stupid idea, no matter how much money you think it'll save, it's not happening, at least not this early in the Switch's life. I could maybe see this being a silly novelty towards the end of its life like the Game Boy Micro was, but that's the only scenario I could see this existing in any fashion. 

1. First point was about games, and fact that you could play 99% of games with built in controls. Its not point about identity, its point about offering different type of revisions and price points of same platform.

2. Its not issue at all, we literally talking about few games (4-5 games from over 1.000 games) that cant be used in handheld mode. DSi and 3DS revisions also have games that couldnt be played on every DSi or 3DS revision.

3. What? I very clear said what would be point of that model, again, "this would be just one low price point revision and one offer of "Switch family" for people who want cheap device that they would play only in handheld mode". And no, not every person would choose more price "real Switch" instead low price point only handheld Switch.

 

I mean you overcomplicate things too much, point would be to offer different type of revisions and price points, you would still have standard Switch model on market in any case, so Switch like platform will not loose anything it will have broader appealing with different type of revisions and price points. You talking about originality, but you forgetting that Nintendo with 2DS ditch 3D and clamshell Dual Screen design in order to have low price offer of 3DS family, they will most likely do something similar with 3DS also.

3DS is dying and it will be dead next year, Nintendo will want low price point Switch next year or year after latest, and they cant have soon enough Switch for $150-200 with just normal revisions and costs save buy time. They will want broad apealing on market, so you will have low price point Switch, normal version and more expansive, similar like 3DS family.

No, low price point Switch with built in controls focused on handheld play is great idea, it would effectively be replacement for price point on market that 3DS currently covers. Imagine something like this in one point:

-Switch Mini/Pocket (smaller form factor, smaller screen, built in controls, without dock...) - $150

-Switch TV (something similar like Vita TV, just for home console use, comes with Switch Pro controler but supports Joy Cons) - $150

-New Switch (revision of current Switch and it will replace current Switch on market similar like New 3DS replaced OG 3DS) - around $250

-Switch Pro (improved Switch in some way) - $300

So we basically talking about Switch family, so offer of different type of revisions and price points of same platform, 99% games would run in any mode and thats more important.

 

Switch will probably be much bigger than just single device with one concept, Switch will most likely be platform with different type of revisions and price points, something similar to 3DS with difference that Switch like hybrid has much more potential for different type of revisions than 3DS.

Last edited by Miyamotoo - on 25 December 2018