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Forums - General Discussion - State attorneys general line up to sue FCC over net neutrality repeal

StarOcean said:
Mystro-Sama said:

So essentially what you want is no government?

They don't know what they want. They just think pretending to be psudo-anarchist is 'cool' 

There are surprisingly a lot of them on VGC. Sometimes it baffles me to see how they reason.



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Aeolus451 said:

ou're only stating "consequences" in a way that a appeals toward emotions. Oh poor people. Oh sickly people.

Yeah, God forbid we think of the poor and the sick; you know, the people most in need of health insurance and financial aid...

Aeolus451 said:

I doubt that it's tens of millions of people though. Most of the people that would happen to would have to pay a bit more for coverage or get it through their employer. It's not end of the world.

According to the Congressional Budget Office, it would be - and it certainly would be the end of the world for people denied coverage for preexisting fatal conditions. You're talking about thousands - if not millions of people either dying or being buried alive in debt so you can save a bit on your bill.

Aeolus451 said:

Trump pulled the US out of the paris accord which saved the US at least 2.5 trillion dollars.

A not legally binding agreement shared by numerous countries whose proposals protect the environment, grow renewable energy industries (and related jobs) and should help save the human race from killing itself. That 2.5T figure was also a worst case scenario among many far lower scenarios and figures. If we keep going down this route we're going to get left in the dust by countries properly investing in their future energy industries...



Nymeria said:
VAMatt said:

That's *an* alternative.  But, its pretty unlikely.  Right now, government and big business are one in the same. Eliminate government and you eliminate the crony capitalist system that allows big companies to pass off their losses on to taxpayers, protects them from competition, and shields them from liability and it would seem to me that businesses would have a lot less power over the lives of the average person than they do now.  

I would increase government to cut the corruption out from big business.  For example, elections would be funded by tax payers, making them solely accountable to the voting public. No one would be allowed to contribute to campaigns or lawmakers for any reason, doing so would face massive fines and prison time.  This way politicians don't spend 20% of their time campaigning and fund raising, they don't pass bills that have low approval rating because it appeases donors and legislation is not written by lobbyists.

My issue is never the size of government, it is how it operates and the level of corruption.  I'll take a massive government that serves its people any day over a small one that allows abuses of the citizenry for self interest. 

The thing is, the bigger the government, the more incentive there is to get control of that government.  So, as government increases in size and/or scope, it becomes exponentially more difficult to keep out corrupting influences.  Therefore, the smaller the government, the better.  Even if a government is super corrupt, it matters very little if that government takes very little of your money and controls very little of your life.  

Biggerboat1 said:
VAMatt said:

That's *an* alternative.  But, its pretty unlikely.  Right now, government and big business are one in the same. Eliminate government and you eliminate the crony capitalist system that allows big companies to pass off their losses on to taxpayers, protects them from competition, and shields them from liability and it would seem to me that businesses would have a lot less power over the lives of the average person than they do now.  

So what would your alternative look like?

In my ideal world businesspeople would no longer be able to shield themselves from liability through the use of corporations (or similar limited liability structures).  If any government existed at all, it would be so small as to be of no use to crony capitalists.  Therefore, crony capitalists would cease to exist.  On the flipside, government would stay completely out of the way of all persons and companies, so that all decisions are solely those of the parties directly involved.  I can buy whatever I want from whoever I want, and anybody that wants to can try to sell me whatever they want.  Any entity can do anything it wants, so long as it doesn't infringe upon the rights of any other entity to do the same.  

To be completely honest though, I don't know exactly what my ideal world would look like.  That's kind of the whole point - no person or group of people knows what is best.  We just have to stay out of the way so that humanity can flourish.  

To put this all another way - philosophically speaking, I'm an anarchist.  Practically speaking, I'm a libertarian.  



VAMatt said:
Nymeria said:

I would increase government to cut the corruption out from big business.  For example, elections would be funded by tax payers, making them solely accountable to the voting public. No one would be allowed to contribute to campaigns or lawmakers for any reason, doing so would face massive fines and prison time.  This way politicians don't spend 20% of their time campaigning and fund raising, they don't pass bills that have low approval rating because it appeases donors and legislation is not written by lobbyists.

My issue is never the size of government, it is how it operates and the level of corruption.  I'll take a massive government that serves its people any day over a small one that allows abuses of the citizenry for self interest. 

The thing is, the bigger the government, the more incentive there is to get control of that government.  So, as government increases in size and/or scope, it becomes exponentially more difficult to keep out corrupting influences.  Therefore, the smaller the government, the better.  Even if a government is super corrupt, it matters very little if that government takes very little of your money and controls very little of your life.  

History doesn't show us that. When the government was much smaller large companies with people such as Rockefeller and Vanderbilt abused markets, workers, and people because there were no checks placed on them.  The government needs to be large enough to serve its people and fight those that would harm them.  Life is so much better today in part because of regulations that protect the environment and workers.

I'd be curious to see a country with a small government you see as a model the United States could follow.



Good. Even though I live in Australia, this could still very well have an effect on the internet here. I'll take some salty Pai please.



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TallSilhouette said:
Aeolus451 said:

ou're only stating "consequences" in a way that a appeals toward emotions. Oh poor people. Oh sickly people.

Yeah, God forbid we think of the poor and the sick; you know, the people most in need of health insurance and financial aid...

Aeolus451 said:

I doubt that it's tens of millions of people though. Most of the people that would happen to would have to pay a bit more for coverage or get it through their employer. It's not end of the world.

According to the Congressional Budget Office, it would be - and it certainly would be the end of the world for people denied coverage for preexisting fatal conditions. You're talking about thousands - if not millions of people either dying or being buried alive in debt so you can save a bit on your bill.

Aeolus451 said:

Trump pulled the US out of the paris accord which saved the US at least 2.5 trillion dollars.

A not legally binding agreement shared by numerous countries whose proposals protect the environment, grow renewable energy industries (and related jobs) and should help save the human race from killing itself. That 2.5T figure was also a worst case scenario among many far lower scenarios and figures. If we keep going down this route we're going to get left in the dust by countries properly investing in their future energy industries...

God forbid that people be able to keep most of what they earn and pay for their own things. You're exaggerating the effects a great deal. People always act like its the end of the word or millions will die. blah. It's not like anyone is holding a gun to someone's head and keeping them from getting insurance or healthcare. If you want to help these kind of people, donate from your own pocket instead of putting the burden on society. I'm not okay with forcing most of the country to suffer for a few who don't want to pay for their higher healthcare costs. They can still get everything they could before but at a price that meets the service they want. 

 I'm not against measures to protect the environment but that accord was a horrible idea and it put too much of the costs onto the US. A too costly, non-binding agreement that wouldn't likely achieve anything close to it's desired result. 



Oh government regulating internet is bad guys. You want smaller government not bigger.



Gamer147 said:
Oh government regulating internet is bad guys. You want smaller government not bigger.

You forgot /s



To everyone opposing net neutrality:

You know that shitty company that gives you subpar internet access? Net neutrality was the only thing stopping then from doing literally whatever they want. Ajit Pai gave more power to ISPs, all of whom in America rank in the top 100 most hated companies, and for some inane contrarian reason you support it.

Protip: just because the Dems want it doesn't make it regressive.



Watch me stream games and hunt trophies on my Twitch channel!

Check out my Twitch Channel!:

www.twitch.tv/AzurenGames

StarOcean said:
Mystro-Sama said:

So essentially what you want is no government?

They don't know what they want. They just think pretending to be psudo-anarchist is 'cool' 

No, I actually want no government.