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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Microsoft pushing EXTREMELY HARD with marketing the one X

It's a short-term success but once you get past enthusiasts and existing fans the thing will struggle. Xbox still suffers in the game department. A system several times less powerful is wiping the floor with it because of a lineup in its first-year miles ahead of a console in its 4th year's lineup. Great for one system and pathetic for the other. New hardware often does well out of the gate but not all have legs.



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Errorist76 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

The CPU requirements Crackdown 3 apparently needs is well beyond what we can expect in a console, which is generally the best specs at a modest price. I assume you haven't seen the benchmark video but its apparently using many CPUs to do those physics.

Again, what you're suggesting is more like the exception versus what developers are actually focusing on. Although, maybe we could have more ambitious CPU intensive projects with the cloud. But developers aren't even focusing on that. Although, bear in mind the PS3 did have MAG, 256 players!

The X1X struggles to maintain 4K even with games designed for vastly inferior GPUs. If next gen hardware makes the jump to 12TF, then 4K should become pretty standard. But graphics will also improve so who knows how standard it will be. Also consider the Pro and X1X are doing 1080p to hit 60 fps in some games.

I don't know how future proof the X1X truly is, but I do believe it will run the average 9th gen game unless CPU becomes a big issue. Which I don't really expect.

The PS3s Cell CPU was even superior to current gen Jaguar CPUs in certain calculations. Next gen will most likely feature Ryzen based CPU cores, which is a huge upgrade and certainly needed for future VR/AR endeavours. X1X and Pro are already struggling with CPU based games like AC Origins or Shadow Of War with drops to 22fps at places. That’s the main reasons I doubt they will be that future proof.

I feel like the examples you're using has more to do with bad optimization. I mean whether it be X1 or X1X, AC Origins has significant frame drops in cutscenes in spite of the X1X having a considerably faster CPU, its like that extra speed has no impact. Maybe the cut scenes are designed to run like shit on consoles, its odd.

However, you ignoring countless other games that make great use of the CPU to make an argument.

If the X1X is a cheap 9th gen device with a good size userbase, there will be an incentive to continue supporting and optimizing games for its CPU. Its also worth noting 8th gen will still have support years into the 9th gen.



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chakkra said:
Errorist76 said: 

I hope that’s not going to happen for longer than maybe for the first year or so. I know all that “we’re done with generations” talk but...The next gen CPUs will be on a whole different level and X1X won’t be able to match that nor will the PS4 Pro. I really hope that doesn’t happen since it would slow down progress way too much. Sony has already committed for keeping generations. I really hope MS doesn’t slow down development of things like physics and A.I. that way.

Well, we saw a jump of 8 times in TFs from PS3 to PS4.  So If we expect a similar jump from X1 to X2 then that means the X2 is gonna be barely twice as powerful as an X1X.

So the gap between the XoneX and the X2 should be A LOT smaller than the gap we have today between Xone and X1X.

Besides, when MS and Sony announced they were moving to the X86 arquitecture, I remember many developers applauding the move because that way they wouldn't have to start from scratch with every generation.

So yes, I totally believe that when 9th gen comes for MS, the X1X is gonna be their cheapest option to play the same games.  Just like Xone is their cheapest option now.

The real improvement will be in CPU power not GPU power with the next consoles, more ai, better ai, better physics bigger worlds higher possible FPS. The GPU increased a lot from PS3 to PS4 but thats just pushing pixels, the mid gen upgrade replaced the GPU and overclocked the CPU a little but again no big upgrades, new architecture and possibilities in cpu will make for one of the biggest jumps ever since the PS3 to PS4 jump of CPU power was already very small




Twitter @CyberMalistix

malistix1985 said:
chakkra said:

Well, we saw a jump of 8 times in TFs from PS3 to PS4.  So If we expect a similar jump from X1 to X2 then that means the X2 is gonna be barely twice as powerful as an X1X.

So the gap between the XoneX and the X2 should be A LOT smaller than the gap we have today between Xone and X1X.

Besides, when MS and Sony announced they were moving to the X86 arquitecture, I remember many developers applauding the move because that way they wouldn't have to start from scratch with every generation.

So yes, I totally believe that when 9th gen comes for MS, the X1X is gonna be their cheapest option to play the same games.  Just like Xone is their cheapest option now.

The real improvement will be in CPU power not GPU power with the next consoles, more ai, better ai, better physics bigger worlds higher possible FPS. The GPU increased a lot from PS3 to PS4 but thats just pushing pixels, the mid gen upgrade replaced the GPU and overclocked the CPU a little but again no big upgrades, new architecture and possibilities in cpu will make for one of the biggest jumps ever since the PS3 to PS4 jump of CPU power was already very small

Every gen is the promise of better AI and yet most games still have the AI o fa N64 game. It's still highly predictable in most games.



"World's most powerful console" isn't really a huge selling point in itself though, this reminds of when the original Xbox came out against the PS2 and Gamecube, the processor was so much faster and it had much better memory, this was a surefire strategy to beat the giants!
Luckily, with the 360, even despite the massive hardware issues, MS learned that content, presentation, support, features, pricing and proper target demographics were the key to success (or at least higher installed base). They seem to have forgotten the 7th gen and the lessons learned in the 6th gen already.
The X One X is very likely too little too late and likely won't have very broad appeal with its pricing, introducing a 500$ console past mid-gen, that aims primarily at the relatively small market who owns a proper 4K TV set is not a very sound strategy at this point in time. A similar push in a couple of years with a new console cycle would probably a better bet, at least in tandem with above mentioned factors and strategies.



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Mummelmann said:
"World's most powerful console" isn't really a huge selling point in itself though, this reminds of when the original Xbox came out against the PS2 and Gamecube, the processor was so much faster and it had much better memory, this was a surefire strategy to beat the giants!
Luckily, with the 360, even despite the massive hardware issues, MS learned that content, presentation, support, features, pricing and proper target demographics were the key to success (or at least higher installed base). They seem to have forgotten the 7th gen and the lessons learned in the 6th gen already.
The X One X is very likely too little too late and likely won't have very broad appeal with its pricing, introducing a 500$ console past mid-gen, that aims primarily at the relatively small market who owns a proper 4K TV set is not a very sound strategy at this point in time. A similar push in a couple of years with a new console cycle would probably a better bet, at least in tandem with above mentioned factors and strategies.

Different time, however. I remember I purchased a PS4 over a Xbox One because of youtube reviews, video's and stuff and the comparison video's where the Ps4 outperformed the Xbox One really swayed me towards getting it.

It the same Youtube which made me decide not to get a PS4 pro and once again the same youtube that made me decide to get an Xbox One X. People are much more aware of the differences in Technology.

When I had a PS2 all I remember was that the XBOX didn't have a dvd player and it sucked because everyone told me it sucked and that was the end of the discussion, but these days you can really see and look up the differences and if the console fits with you online.

Sure The Xbox one X will never "take off" its a 500 machine but people who want the best experience will get it and that wasn't nessesarely the case 10+ years ago because people where just less informed and had less tools to compare things. 




Twitter @CyberMalistix

Zekkyou said:
taus90 said:

honestly I find a little odd that you think that todays tech specially upcoming mobile tech cant out perform a 5 year old laptop APU and that too a crappy one, when AMD just showed that their latest APU can deliver 200x more performance then their last gen high end APU with a TDP of switch, now increase those tdp even further too 35w those same ryzen apu's are out performing a 91watt 5th Gen i5 processor.. also look at that gamecompany's new game SKY it looks as good as journey on PS4. 

If you are still not convinced here is another scenario, even if we take the latest techs of PSvita hardware, Like a PowerVR GT7900 mobile gpu, this gpu alone produces 1tf of performance now combine that with a custom design and 4 cortex A75 processor cores and a custom API, we have well over 1.5 teraflops of performance far better than xbox one. 

When AMD's currently unreleased APU still falls a little short, and that's before the need to include more and much faster RAM than a Switch, a 1080p screen (since we're replicating the PS4's graphics), likley a bigger battery, far more internal memory, etc, yes, i remain sceptical this can all be put into a Switch sized case, kept cool, and have an acceptable battery life. I don't think that's odd.

Even a docked Switch is a considerably hardware step back from a PS4, yet it's $300. Either Nintendo are badly ripping everyone off, or a PS4 equivalent (which for the sake of argument we will say is 100% possible right now) would be an extremely expensive handheld. 

Oh Nintendo always rip off, but its understandable why they are doing it, as the hardware they have is in partnership with Nvidia. Switch is basically a Nvidia Shield with x1 which is a 20nm chip from 2014. Also why do u need better battery and cooling solution when the heat and power output is as same as a switch, And this is not even on 10nm, even a mass produced snapdragon 835 is outputting 500+ GF at 2k resolution, bring that too 1080p it goes even higher. far better than Switch in docked mode.The only issue I could think of is LPDDR rams bandwidth but again with a closed platform and a fast SDXC card or an onboard nvme solution those can be easily offset.  

Again apple with its A11 chip has showcased that very same thing which you are skeptical about, infact A11 is derived from the PSvita hardware successors which i mentioned in my previous post.. an in house custom design 3 core GPU, based on PowerVR cores and for CPU 4 high power cores and 2 low power cores and that think is outperforming a 2017 mac pro with i5. I am an iOS and Android Developer and the things A11 can do really makes me wish sony should consider a vita2. And if u talk about the price of iphone 8, remember we are talking about apple here.

Also if Sony and MS can redesign a far worse Jaguar APU and produce the result which we have on PS4... u think they cant redesign a far better and more enegy efficient ryzen apu to fit onto a tablet size device?? Bottom line is a system designed around close platform and ability to code directly to hardware will always be better than general purpose device based on the same hardware.



And here it folks where MS leaves Xbone S owners behind in the dust with gimpy versions of games where they need to upgrade to get the better experience. Very common of MS when they left 360 owners with no games toward end of last generation.....



Frank_kc said:
And here it folks where MS leaves Xbone S owners behind in the dust with gimpy versions of games where they need to upgrade to get the better experience. Very common of MS when they left 360 owners with no games toward end of last generation.....

So true. It’s very disrespectful to those who shelled out 500 at launch and now need to shell out another 500 (+ another 100 for an external HDD because of the 100-150 GB game sizes) because MS stopped supporting their 3rd console early in a row.

The best thing is MS fans calling it a “fan service”.

At least Sony offered an upgrade without spitting on their biggest fans.



 

chakkra said:
Errorist76 said: 

I hope that’s not going to happen for longer than maybe for the first year or so. I know all that “we’re done with generations” talk but...The next gen CPUs will be on a whole different level and X1X won’t be able to match that nor will the PS4 Pro. I really hope that doesn’t happen since it would slow down progress way too much. Sony has already committed for keeping generations. I really hope MS doesn’t slow down development of things like physics and A.I. that way.

Well, we saw a jump of 8 times in TFs from PS3 to PS4.  So If we expect a similar jump from X1 to X2 then that means the X2 is gonna be barely twice as powerful as an X1X.

So the gap between the XoneX and the X2 should be A LOT smaller than the gap we have today between Xone and X1X.

Besides, when MS and Sony announced they were moving to the X86 arquitecture, I remember many developers applauding the move because that way they wouldn't have to start from scratch with every generation.

So yes, I totally believe that when 9th gen comes for MS, the X1X is gonna be their cheapest option to play the same games.  Just like Xone is their cheapest option now.

 

Like I said, I can imagine they’d want it that way...I can just hope the thing doesn’t sell then, because if it does the X1X is going to hinder true progression for many years. Its CPU is outdated already. You’re right if you say the gap in GPU power will be much less to a future X2... the gap to its CPU though will be immense and a true generational jump. That’s the true difference...the gap in CPU power between X1 and X1X is only 30%. The gap between X1X and X2 will be more like 500% or even more.

 

malistix1985 said: 
Mummelmann said: 
"World's most powerful console" isn't really a huge selling point in itself though, this reminds of when the original Xbox came out against the PS2 and Gamecube, the processor was so much faster and it had much better memory, this was a surefire strategy to beat the giants! 
Luckily, with the 360, even despite the massive hardware issues, MS learned that content, presentation, support, features, pricing and proper target demographics were the key to success (or at least higher installed base). They seem to have forgotten the 7th gen and the lessons learned in the 6th gen already.
The X One X is very likely too little too late and likely won't have very broad appeal with its pricing, introducing a 500$ console past mid-gen, that aims primarily at the relatively small market who owns a proper 4K TV set is not a very sound strategy at this point in time. A similar push in a couple of years with a new console cycle would probably a better bet, at least in tandem with above mentioned factors and strategies.

Different time, however. I remember I purchased a PS4 over a Xbox One because of youtube reviews, video's and stuff and the comparison video's where the Ps4 outperformed the Xbox One really swayed me towards getting it.

It the same Youtube which made me decide not to get a PS4 pro and once again the same youtube that made me decide to get an Xbox One X. People are much more aware of the differences in Technology.

When I had a PS2 all I remember was that the XBOX didn't have a dvd player and it sucked because everyone told me it sucked and that was the end of the discussion, but these days you can really see and look up the differences and if the console fits with you online.

Sure The Xbox one X will never "take off" its a 500 machine but people who want the best experience will get it and that wasn't nessesarely the case 10+ years ago because people where just less informed and had less tools to compare things. 

 

While that is true the value proposition has to be regarded. A PSPro for almost half the price (available for 320-340 already, soon going to be 300...X1X additionally needs a big external HDD for those huge games) still offers a pretty close experience. All recent Digital Foundry videos have proven that, in most cases, the differences aren’t major at normal viewing distances and without using a magnifying glass. 

Last edited by Errorist76 - on 12 November 2017