Sanders isn't a socialist lol.

"When I ran for the Senate the first time, I ran against the wealthiest guy in the state of Vermont. He spent a lot on advertising — very ugly stuff. He kept attacking me as a liberal. He didn’t use the word ‘socialist’ at all, because everybody in the state knows that I am that."

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2015/aug/26/bernie-sanders-socialist-or-democratic-socialist/

You mean aside from Bernie Sanders who was talking about that plus single payer health care which the majority of Americans agree with and low cost college which I would assume a lot of Americans support also.

These are important issues as well, and I did mention there are many low-hanging fruits to be picked by US politicians. Healthcare, education and immigration made both Bernie and Trump popular. I don't think we disagree here.

Trump ironically piggy-bagged some liberal ideas, the Republican party hasn't given a shit about the middle class for ages, "Reaganomics" is basically the beginning of the end of the American middle-class concept. Liberals haven't pushed issues too far to the left for fear of being called a communist, but lo and behold Trump is basically saying some of the same things. Though I bet even though his Republican "colleagues" are currently grinning, they are going to come under massive lobbying pressure from corporations to nix a lot of these ideas.

Yes, Trump is hardly a republican. Again, he picked up the thousand-dollar bills lying on the sidewalk, same bills Sanders picked. I happen to not believe Trump. I believed Sanders though, it's the same issues he championed for decades.

Problem is he won't get any of this stuff done. Demonizing trade deals is a narrow, myopic view of the situation. The bottom line is at the end of the day there are 10 Chinese people willing to make anything any American can make for 1/5 the salary, with no vacation time, willing to work weekends, no medical, no dental, and no "trade adjustment" to NAFTA or anything else is changing that. Beyond that, in some industries, they don't even need cheap overseas labor, machines can work 24/7 and don't need a lunch break. And American consumers are hypocrites themselves. How many of them buy American made clothing even when the option is made available to them? Nope. They'd rather pay less for their clothes. And when they are willing to spend more ... they don't want some shitty Ford or Calvin Purse .... they want a German BMW and an Italian Prada purse.

As we both discussed manufacturing jobs in some other thread, they are not coming back. They are lost, and now even the Chinese are losing these jobs to robots. I don't we think we diagree on anything

Just as an aside, probably not the best idea to claim that its wrong to call someone dumb and then use "is accusing" in the same sentence.

E is not my native language but touche

Anyway, now that I'm done taking advantage of harmless spelling errors, I feel the need to call out a few things in the three posts above.

Firstly, Sanders was talking about trade deals, and created his "cult," long before Trump did. Sanders' announced his candidacy nearly a full two months before Trump did, and arguably started reeling in his cult long beforehand as a senator. You can argue that Trump make remarks about immigration before Sanders became a "mainstream" candidate, but that's another point altogether.

Yes, since I am not American, I never heard before of Sander until late 2015, when he became to mainstream on a worldwide level. So my history is off.  In any case, Trump & Sanders are against mass immigration, you are flooding the market with low wage workers and the wage will get lower, thanks to the simple law of supply and demand.

Secondly, the blanket statement of "Americans don't want more immigration" is misleading at best. Some Americans don't want that. 46% don't, according to a Rasmussen poll from August (and those were the most favorable numbers for that position I could find), compared with 47% that do. 

Well, 46% and 47% is a statistical tie. Change my statement to "a lot Americans don't want immigration". It only benefits the political parties (mostly the Dems) and the rich people who would love to have even lower-wage workers available to them. Hillary's plan was to fasten the process of giving illegal immigrants citizenships, if it worked, it probably would've insured the Dems will win every future election. Since these people are most likely to vote for the mother of all migrants and her party. She was also planning on quadrupling the number of refugees recieved from the middle east.

Thirdly, issues like abortion and gay marriage very much impact significant portions of the country; roughly 3% or so of Americans for homosexual marriage and any woman (as well as some men) who are sexually active and without the resources/wishes to care for a child.

They are important issues of course, what I was trying to say is that these issues don't win you elections. Half of the country is pro-choice, the other half is pro-life. Debating gay marriage was a non issue in this election (thank you Obama).

The number of Americans' whose jobs are genuinely impacted by illegal immigration/trade deals is relatively minute; immigrants rarely compete for jobs that even lower class Americans would take and trade deals largely affect manufacturing, and the share of manufacturing jobs in the industry has consistently been on the decline from about 48% in 1948, to 35% in 1960, to 24% in 1980, to 13% in 2000, to the 8% it is now. The manufacturing sector has been shrinking in the United States over the past half century regardless, and as technology allows for manufacturing jobs to become more and more replaceable, that will only shrink more and more. Point in all of this is that immigration/manufacturing jobs don't really affect all that many Americans in the first place; but people are convinced they do nonetheless, and, more importantly, they're convinced that these jobs will somehow return if stricter trade laws are put in place.

Illegal immigrants don't just compete for jobs and lower the minimum wage, they benefit from welfare, they have kids and these kids go to free schools and that costs America, and they don't pay tax (Except for sales tax?), and some even take English classes to integrate. I don't see how this helps the working class.

And yeah, manufacturing & coal mining jobs are not coming back, and they are being lost to robots in China. Hillary had a good plan for those who are affected by this, which is to train these people and make them ready to take on new jobs. But no one listened to her because she was busy telling people about Trump's personality until the last day of the election.

And this really is Clinton's biggest failure in my opinion (besides an idiotic attempt to rig her own primary). Clinton goes after Trump for his various controversies, but rarely for his policy positions (except to try and solidify support within her own group, mentioning how he's pro life, anti gun control, terrible for Democrat policies, etc.). It's very easy to debunk the claim that higher trade restrictions would lead to a significant amount of jobs, because recently, due to rising wages and much higher land costs in China, a number of Chinese companies have begun to open factories in the United States. These factories are heavily automated, however, and hardly created any jobs at all.

Agreed. 

Like it or not, America's become a service based economy, and service based economies tend to benefit greatly from fewer trade barriers since they export almost nothing. Increasing trade barriers, meanwhile, does raise costs on goods that most of us take for granted, such as clothing, packaging, anything with plastic, and technology. It remains to be seen what the effects of Trump's economic policies are, but it'd be difficult to imagine them drastically impacting the average American since so few of them are really directed at the sectors where the vast majority of Americans work.

I am not expert on trade policies (or anything really lol). I probably read 10 articles on how TTP is good for Americans, and another 10 articles about how TTP is bad for Americans.