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UK General Election 2015

Forums - Politics Discussion - UK General Election 2015

SamuelRSmith said:
If the EU refused a free trade agreement with the UK out of spite, despite the huge cost to the citizens of the EU if they did that, that should show you that the EU is run by narcissistic despots and it'd be best to get out quick.

Are we not forgetting that without the EU, the UK would be free to independently form free trade deals with other countries. North America and East Asia are forming the TPP, a free trade union across the pacific nations. Having the EU protectionists in control of the UK's international trade agreements prevents the UK from getting involved in other pacts around the globe.

True, but how much negotiating prowess do you think we would have without the rest of the EU? The whole point of being in the EU is that when it comes to negotiation, you have the backing of the largest economic zone in the world. It becomes a lot easier to dictate terms compared to a single country.

But what your describing, wouldn't that be simply swapping one problem with the same problem but in a different group?



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kowenicki said:
Ka-pi96 said:

I feel the same way about Milliband...

We agree on something


I would hope anyone with eyes, ears and a memory would agree with us...

The man is a fool who was up to his neck in the economic shambles of the last mob. 

I still find it shocking he's in charge of one of the main political parties.

Stupid unions.



Scoobes said:
Machina said:
Ka-pi96 said:
 

Remaining in the EU = planning for the future.

What about immigration is even a problem with the EU though? It only gives people in other EU countries a right to move here if they choose to, what's wrong with that? 1) It should be merit based, 2) if they can't get a job here to support themselves then they won't be able to stay here, will they? 3) If they stay here regardless then isn't that the UK governments fault for funding them rather than the fault of the EU?


1 - You say 'what's wrong with that?' then give a perfect example of what's wrong with it! It isn't merit based and cannot ever be merit based. It's uncontrolled. That's a fundamental principle of the EU...

2 - Again, EU rules. They have a right to be here and we cannot implement any limits or restrictions of any kind if they are EU citizens. You could be an unemployed serial rapist and child murderer from another European country, you still have the right to come and live here if you wish.

3 - Again, no. It's against EU rules to 'discriminate' between EU citizens. All EU citizens have a right to live in the UK if they wish and no, you cannot remove them.

EU = fundamentally anti-democratic, protectionist, supranational government.

Not entirely true. If you were a serial rapist and child murderer you would be arrested as soon as you got to the airport/dock because there would almost certainly be a European Arrest Warrant filed.

Not if you had served your sentence.... I admit you are probably serving life for that, but what does that actually mean these days, there are plenty of child murderes on the loose after serving time.

If I live in Italy and have a record for violence there is nothing to stop me from travelling to the UK where becuase I am a thug I manage to get  into a fight in a pub on my first day here.  Unfortunately I badly break my arm but manage to make my escape. 

I simply walk to the hospital and get free treatment, not forgetting to make an apopintment at the local job centre plus to claim my benefits as I am unfit for work. 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/alice-gross-murder-prime-suspect-4377934

He strolls into this country as a convicted murderer... no questions asked... murders again.

HOW is that right?

 

 



I'm not really here!

Link: Shipment History Since 1995


Scoobes said:

True, but how much negotiating prowess do you think we would have without the rest of the EU? The whole point of being in the EU is that when it comes to negotiation, you have the backing of the largest economic zone in the world. It becomes a lot easier to dictate terms compared to a single country.

But what your describing, wouldn't that be simply swapping one problem with the same problem but in a different group?

Countries in the TPP: AustraliaBruneiCanadaChileJapanMalaysiaMexicoNew ZealandPeru,Singapore, the United States, and Vietnam.

I don't think we need help negotiating trade deals, when Peru can do it.



Ka-pi96 said:
kowenicki said:


Poor choice of words from him.. I doubt he meant that.

but his point is correct...

We import more than we export, why would the EU want to upset that applecart?

SlayerRondo said the opposite...

He's wrong then.  I misread him.  The EU has more to lose than we do from making trade with us difficult.



I'm not really here!

Link: Shipment History Since 1995


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kowenicki said:
kopstudent89 said:
Nirvana_Nut85 said:


What do you mean? I checked the policies they would implement and it seems pretty fair in regards to immigration if that is what you are referring to.


I've been following UKIP for a few years now and Farage and his party have garnered quite the reputation. I don't think they're that fair in those aspects. Also Farage with all due respect is a joke. They're now less contrversial than before now that they've grown in stature and they do make good points (rarely)  but it's expected now that they've gained that momentum to make a push for a seat.

Anyways, I do think it's going to be an interesting election since the other parties have been a farce the past few years. And I know UKIP getting a seat wouldn't affect my status but I still can't agree what his party stands for. I'm just sharing my opinion as an outsider who follows the news. 

They have a seat...


They didn't get any in the last general election? Or am I missing something



YNWA

kopstudent89 said:
kowenicki said:

They have a seat...


They didn't get any in the last general election? Or am I missing something

I think they won a by-election last year to get that seat.

Edit: yep, they won a by-election in October and then another in November for 2 seats total.



Bet Shiken that COD would outsell Battlefield in 2018. http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8749702

SamuelRSmith said:
Scoobes said:

True, but how much negotiating prowess do you think we would have without the rest of the EU? The whole point of being in the EU is that when it comes to negotiation, you have the backing of the largest economic zone in the world. It becomes a lot easier to dictate terms compared to a single country.

But what your describing, wouldn't that be simply swapping one problem with the same problem but in a different group?

Countries in the TPP: AustraliaBruneiCanadaChileJapanMalaysiaMexicoNew ZealandPeru,Singapore, the United States, and Vietnam.

I don't think we need help negotiating trade deals, when Peru can do it.

Did they get a good deal?

And surely the problem of being part of this group would be exactly the same as with the EU? How much control do we lose when joining another economic pact?



kowenicki said:
Ka-pi96 said:
kowenicki said:


Poor choice of words from him.. I doubt he meant that.

but his point is correct...

We import more than we export, why would the EU want to upset that applecart?

SlayerRondo said the opposite...

He's wrong then.  I misread him.  The EU has more to lose than we do from making trade with us difficult.


Lol keep dreaming that, the UK needs the EU far more than the other way around. A lot of the EU money goes back to britain and they block a lot of great intiatives because their anti EU stand. If the Brits want to leave, good riddance but the consequence for Britain will be way harsher than most imagine. UK  isn't the same mighty power it was a few decennia ago that always gets what it wants, deals will have to be made. Deals which will be worse than what they have now with the EU



kowenicki said:
Scoobes said:

Not entirely true. If you were a serial rapist and child murderer you would be arrested as soon as you got to the airport/dock because there would almost certainly be a European Arrest Warrant filed.

Not if you had served your sentence.... I admit you are probably serving life for that, but what does that actually mean these days, there are plenty of child murderes on the loose after serving time.

If I live in Italy and have a record for violence there is nothing to stop me from travelling to the UK where becuase I am a thug I manage to get  into a fight in a pub on my first day here.  Unfortunately I badly break my arm but manage to make my escape. 

I simply walk to the hospital and get free treatment, not forgetting to make an apopintment at the local job centre plus to claim my benefits as I am unfit for work. 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/alice-gross-murder-prime-suspect-4377934

He strolls into this country as a convicted murderer... no questions asked... murders again.

HOW is that right?

 

 

It's not, and the EU has problems. My point was that it's easier for escaping criminals to get arrested when they try and move through the EU.

Even with all the problems the EU brings, I think it's still in our best interests to stay in. If Cameron could renegotiate our position then great (although I don't have much faith in him). But I don't see the point of jumping out of the EU and still being dictated by a lot of their economic rules. Afterall, we would still need to trade with them but instead of little influence we would have no influence to dictate policy.

There are also other benefits to being in the EU. One that often gets overlooked by most people (because it's not their field) is the advantages to Research (Uni and smaller startups). We get a lot of money from the EU specifically for Research purposes. For every £1 they put in, our economy benefits 3-fold from the discoveries and the companies that start up from the findings (not to mention the extra jobs). But that's overlooking the simple fact that a lot of our research in this country is now collaborative and jumping out of the EU would seriously hinder our place in the World. We currently punch well above our weight in the science and technology sectors. We have a good number of small and medium sized businesses spinning out of university research and none of this would be possible if the research collaborations weren't in place. Swiss R&D for instance has taken a significant hit in recent years simply down to the lack of significant collaboration with instituitions outside the country.