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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Absorbing Wii U architecture?

jclock on 06 February 2015
Soundwave said:
jclock said:
What people are forgetting is the major advancements in technology we have had. Let's use Moore's Law that states and I quote from wikipedia " is the observation that, over the history of computing hardware, the number of transistors in a dense integrated circuit doubles approximately every two years."

Using this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Architecture

Look at the history, there is a constant line of upgrades with PowerPC and the last major one for x86 is x86-64 (I wouldn't call multi-core processing an upgrade, multi-CPU ability has been around for ages, i've seen boards with 2 P4s in them.

So yes, I see Nintendo absorbing the Wii U in it's new console in 4 or 5 years with the next portable running on the same architecture for easy porting. Power PC is here to stay and chances are it will be running on a higher clocked hex core or something for their next console


I think PowerPC is out. ARM will be the CPU for both the portable and home variants. But maybe they can come up with some hardware/dev kit tweaks that allow for easier porting even on the CPU side. GPU will likely be AMD as they've been hinting at that, so that should be much easier to match. 

PowerPC runs way too hot for a portable too. 

Oddly enough, Both ARM and PowerPC run the same instruction set (or roughly the same) and both are incredibly efficient. But who knows, we can't predict the future



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WolfpackN64 on 06 February 2015
walsufnir said:
WolfpackN64 said:
curl-6 said:
WolfpackN64 said:
curl-6 said:

Gaming has moved on to x86. That is what is standard now. Sticking with PPC already caused Wii U to have an underpowered CPU, it will do the same to their next system if they retain it.

PPC is not the reason Espresso is underpowered. Espresso is still a relative to Gecko from the Gamecube (albeit with higher clockspeed and 3 cores).

In the server business in the meantime, POWER8 chips stomp all over the Xeons (but obiously, you can't use a server chip in a console). And with the succes of ARM on Android, the myriad of games on MIPS on PS2 and the numerous games on Power ISA (Xbox 360, PS3, Gamecube, Wii) and the ease of compiling code or even using universal binary, the porting argument is really just misused. Some companies don't want to take the risk of porting and selling their games on the Wii U, but if they want to, it's not that hard.

And moved on to, you do know x86 is older than PowerPC, right?

Use in servers isn't really relevant to its use in consoles though. Modern consoles and PCs use x86, not PPC. Wii U's the only one that still uses it.

My point is that Nintendo needs to chose what's best for their business, if they chose a modern implementation of PPC, who's to blame them? The indies don't seem to mind RISC.


It would require a huge amount of time and development from IBM and Nintendo, with a lot of testing, to fit the console's needs. Nobody wants a loud system anymore nowadays, especially not a system which draws a lot of power.

Nintendo won't go PPC again. They will go with "standard" hardware which can be seen now in many devices and change some things which are quite easy to change and will benefit the needs of the system Nintendo has in mind.

The Wii U is the most energy efficiënt and quietest systems of the 3. They have a long standing partnership with IBM, we don't really know what they could get out of it.



walsufnir on 07 February 2015
WolfpackN64 said:
walsufnir said:


It would require a huge amount of time and development from IBM and Nintendo, with a lot of testing, to fit the console's needs. Nobody wants a loud system anymore nowadays, especially not a system which draws a lot of power.

Nintendo won't go PPC again. They will go with "standard" hardware which can be seen now in many devices and change some things which are quite easy to change and will benefit the needs of the system Nintendo has in mind.

The Wii U is the most energy efficiënt and quietest systems of the 3. They have a long standing partnership with IBM, we don't really know what they could get out of it.


It consumes less power, because it is less powerful. Energy efficient is a totally different story. How do you measure it?



AlfredoTurkey on 07 February 2015
walsufnir said:
No matter what it meant, it *should* mean "bye bye PPC". While I totally like backwards compatibility, it did almost nothing for WiiU so they should go with a different solution. I don't see emulation happening, too.


This idea of no BC because of a shift towards PC architecture is pure PR bullshit. Right now, on this PC I'm typing on, I can play Mario Kart Wii. Emulation doesn't seem to be such a hard thing at all. What IS a hard thing? Trying to get people to double dip on prior gens games when you give them the ability to play their original discs on your new console. 

 

If MS and/or Sony wanted to make their latest consoles play old games, they could have done it. They didn't want to.



WolfpackN64 on 07 February 2015
walsufnir said:
WolfpackN64 said:
walsufnir said:


It would require a huge amount of time and development from IBM and Nintendo, with a lot of testing, to fit the console's needs. Nobody wants a loud system anymore nowadays, especially not a system which draws a lot of power.

Nintendo won't go PPC again. They will go with "standard" hardware which can be seen now in many devices and change some things which are quite easy to change and will benefit the needs of the system Nintendo has in mind.

The Wii U is the most energy efficiënt and quietest systems of the 3. They have a long standing partnership with IBM, we don't really know what they could get out of it.


It consumes less power, because it is less powerful. Energy efficient is a totally different story. How do you measure it?

Well, they must have done something about efficiëncy, as the Wii only draws 40 Watts while idle, the Wii U only draws 37 Watts. Meanwile, the PS4 and the Xbox One draw from 200 to about 350 Watts idle respectivly, while the standard Jaguar parts only draw 25 Watts idle.



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walsufnir on 07 February 2015
WolfpackN64 said:
walsufnir said:
WolfpackN64 said:
walsufnir said:


It would require a huge amount of time and development from IBM and Nintendo, with a lot of testing, to fit the console's needs. Nobody wants a loud system anymore nowadays, especially not a system which draws a lot of power.

Nintendo won't go PPC again. They will go with "standard" hardware which can be seen now in many devices and change some things which are quite easy to change and will benefit the needs of the system Nintendo has in mind.

The Wii U is the most energy efficiënt and quietest systems of the 3. They have a long standing partnership with IBM, we don't really know what they could get out of it.


It consumes less power, because it is less powerful. Energy efficient is a totally different story. How do you measure it?

Well, they must have done something about efficiëncy, as the Wii only draws 40 Watts while idle, the Wii U only draws 37 Watts. Meanwile, the PS4 and the Xbox One draw from 200 to about 350 Watts idle respectivly, while the standard Jaguar parts only draw 25 Watts idle.

 

Your numbers are wrong: http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/182829-new-report-slams-xbox-one-and-ps4-power-consumption-inefficiencies-still-abound



walsufnir on 07 February 2015
AlfredoTurkey said:
walsufnir said:
No matter what it meant, it *should* mean "bye bye PPC". While I totally like backwards compatibility, it did almost nothing for WiiU so they should go with a different solution. I don't see emulation happening, too.


This idea of no BC because of a shift towards PC architecture is pure PR bullshit. Right now, on this PC I'm typing on, I can play Mario Kart Wii. Emulation doesn't seem to be such a hard thing at all. What IS a hard thing? Trying to get people to double dip on prior gens games when you give them the ability to play their original discs on your new console. 

 

If MS and/or Sony wanted to make their latest consoles play old games, they could have done it. They didn't want to.


Nice you can emulate a Wii? Full-speed? Than you have a very good CPU. I don't want to go deeper but emulation needs a lot of power in terms of CPU cycles. And WiiU has 3x Wii + more speed which makes your PC emulating a Wii absolutely impossible. And PCs in 2-3 years, too. And with this, even high-end PCs are meant.

Emulation *is* a hard thing to do. Always was and always will be.



AlfredoTurkey on 07 February 2015
walsufnir said:
AlfredoTurkey said:


This idea of no BC because of a shift towards PC architecture is pure PR bullshit. Right now, on this PC I'm typing on, I can play Mario Kart Wii. Emulation doesn't seem to be such a hard thing at all. What IS a hard thing? Trying to get people to double dip on prior gens games when you give them the ability to play their original discs on your new console. 

 

If MS and/or Sony wanted to make their latest consoles play old games, they could have done it. They didn't want to.


Nice you can emulate a Wii? Full-speed? Than you have a very good CPU. I don't want to go deeper but emulation needs a lot of power in terms of CPU cycles. And WiiU has 3x Wii + more speed which makes your PC emulating a Wii absolutely impossible. And PCs in 2-3 years, too. And with this, even high-end PCs are meant.

Emulation *is* a hard thing to do. Always was and always will be.

I just meant that it's more than possible for a company as rich these guys (Nintendo, Sony and MS), to release a fully functional emulator capable of playing last gens games. Certainly original Xbox and PS1 games. 

If an unemployed hacker can do it, then certainly they could.



Mnementh on 07 February 2015

"It of course does not mean that we are going to use exactly the same architecture as Wii U, but we are going to create a system that can absorb the Wii U architecture adequately. When this happens, home consoles and handheld devices will no longer be completely different, and they will become like brothers in a family of systems."

Reading this most people assume it's about CPU? Is that the only architecture you people know. If it is about bringing handheld and console more together, I assume it is more about the inputs. Meaning a second screen with touch inputs.

Also I don't understand the fears and hopes about choosing the CPU-architecture. All three architectures that would be viable today (ppc, x86 and ARM) are OK for consoles. The consumer (gamer) isn't affected at all by the choice of CPU-architecture, the only thing is backwards compatibility. But porting isn't hindered by different CPUs, that's what a compiler is for. Even the choice of the GPU has more impact on porting (although still small), as Nvidia and AMD have different (but similar) APIs.



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etking on 07 February 2015

It just means that Nintendo Fusion is definitely coming. But the leaked mobile display resolution is way too low, much lower than the average smartphone.