@ACE you realize is not like 10 millions guys putting your hands in Forza... it's more like 5 million and the numbers shows all the guys who brought Forza 3 did't buy Forza 4.

Forza frachise alredy have it peak... now it's now slow downning because just 2 million fans cares abot it.

@zuvuyeay your shows a massacre lol

i don't think it's a massacre ethomaz,i was just putting some charts to the OP,forza has sold a lot of games for the 360,GT is as old as playstation(well not quite)-edit

they both deserve a bit of respect for me,sure GT5 is a monster people have been arguing about that game for as long as i can remember

The GT vs Forza rivalry is absolutely ridiculous, as they are essentially the same game. If you like one, you like the other. It's like saying "I like left boobs but right boobs are shit!". Only an idiot would get himself involved in these kind of discussions.

Well, that would still be a usuless discussion. But I'd say GT and Forza are too similar in both content and quality to genuinely think one is great and the other sucks.

While this is well written and thought out, it's kind of a lot of info and talk just to end with a "no duh" conclusion. "In conclusion, this debate is not going away anytime soon."

It also says a lot about the power of the GT franchise when a glorified demo can sell more than Forza 1&2 and maybe 4, depending on how well that finishes. Forza may be a great game, but it has awhile to go before it can claim a victory like that.

I agree somewhat. It's just that this other guy doesn't understand that 2 million people who care about a franchise leads to systems selling because of the quality of that franchise.
If GT can be so successful, then a game that is in the exact same genre can be just as successful. The difference is that X360 is more of a shooter console but that doesn't change the fact of what Forza is. Forza is considered to be a great standup to GT. With quality and introduction to newcomers comes bigger fanbase and Forza's dedicated fanbase will only grow as long as the quality remains the same or possibly even gets better. Forza 4 as you say isn't selling to the people who already bought Forza 3 (even thought it most likely is) is a good sign because the Forza 3 players will eventually switch to Forza 4 due to the knowledge that it is infact worth it since the quality keeps getting better with each title.

One way to see dedication is for someone (me) who loves Forza and is good at it. Do laps on every single track with many different cars (I have) and see where you rank. I don't even rank near the top...like not even within 400,000 people sometimes. That's the Forza community.

I could go on and on but I won't. I just wonder about some peoples ignorance sometimes. Forza is a community racer and with that comes higher dedication within that community.

Yeah, I love GT (reason why I bought a PS3, plus MGS4) for the simple reason of collecting all the cars, the licenses and the fact that it's what I grew up with on Playstation. GT just has that collossal feeling to it and has more content in it that the next leading game.

That glorified demo was marketed as full as retail game.

I said "No one buys an xbox for Forza" - the implication here is of system seller. If that was unclear to you, I apologize. Do you agree that it isn't a system seller then?