Jay520 said: KeptoKnight said: If we had no free will, then whats the brain and the heart for? also Why do some of you say we have no free will? Our heart is to pump blood through our bodies. Our brains are to gain data from our sense and form actions based off them. Why is there no free will? Because a person's personality is completely determined by his environment and innate brain structure. Both of these factors are not in control of the person.

I hear what you are saying. Give me a couple of mins.

Most people aren't conscious at all, but living completely within the human made "matrix", the artificially crafted world, as opposed to the living, breathing world, nature. Humans are consciousness having an experience in the physical reality however. It's up to us all to decide what level of consciousness we will practice in our daily life.

The question of the existence of a Creator is answered through sacred geometry, old philosophers and mathmaticians like Pythagoras and Plato, and quantum mechanics. To research "phi" would be a good way to start. The answer is: The universe is a construct of ultimate consciousness. There is divine order everywhere in nature and the universe. The old principle is valid: As above, so below.

"If God did not exist, he would have to be invented." But all nature cries aloud that he does exist: that there is a supreme intelligence, an immense power, an admirable order, and everything teaches us our own dependence on it."  ~Voltaire

 

       

 

So to answer your question: I think being conscious is a gift only to young children, and a practice for grown ups. The more you let your higher consciousness reign over your physical expression (body), the more you are blessed.

IIIIITHE1IIIII said: Roma said: the way we live and think alive is different than the way we will in the afterlife Source?

Why would you think we would get bored in the afterlife? I mean in heaven there will be no evil in us if we get there that is so why would boredom be something that stays with us?

 

Boredom can lead to bad things

 

Heaven is always good

 

Source: heaven

 

 

Roma said: IIIIITHE1IIIII said: Roma said: the way we live and think alive is different than the way we will in the afterlife Source? Why would you think we would get bored in the afterlife? I mean in heaven there will be no evil in us if we get there that is so why would boredom be something that stays with us?   Boredom can lead to bad things   Heaven is always good   Source: heaven

Roma said: IIIIITHE1IIIII said: Roma said: the way we live and think alive is different than the way we will in the afterlife Source? Why would you think we would get bored in the afterlife? I mean in heaven there will be no evil in us if we get there that is so why would boredom be something that stays with us?   Boredom can lead to bad things   Heaven is always good   Source: heaven

That makes no sense. How can there be good with no bad. For what is positive? But the contrast of negative? Good would not be 'good' in heaven. Good would simply be neutral. An eternity of a completely neutral state of mind. That does not sound 'good' at all.

I'm an atheist, but I have to say, death is the worst thing that can happen to a conciousness, ever.
The moment you die, you might as well have never been born. And it is totally unacceptable.
We need to find a way to stop aging, as fast as fucking possible.

KungKras said: I'm an atheist, but I have to say, death is the worst thing that can happen to a conciousness, ever. The moment you die, you might as well have never been born. And it is totally unacceptable. We need to find a way to stop aging, as fast as fucking possible.

Think about this way: You were dead for all those years before you were born, it wasn't that bad, was it? You can even imagine that the time before your birth and after your death neven even existed. Because it didn't, from your perspective. If you don't percieve something, why even consider it in your reality? You won't percieve death, therefore death is not apart of reality. You're going to live forever, from your point of view.

IIIIITHE1IIIII said: sergiodaly said: IIIIITHE1IIIII said: ArnoldRimmer said: For example, when most western people hear the word "god", they automatically think of some kind of human-like being, something like an old man sitting on a cloud having a beard. They have a certain perception of the word "god" that they got from their parents, people around them, the priests in church, the guys who made the movies they watched or the Wikipedia-article on "god" (revision 1234567, last modified by user bick_dick_79). And then they feel very clever rejecting their own ridiculous perception of the word "god"... "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him-" Genesis 1:27 Also, stop assuming that atheists don't know about the Christian God. i am sorry, but you can't take that from bible and assume is literal. we were made in his image, meaning we are perfect in our way, we have all the things we need to live is this world. God don't need air, food, hydration, a material body or a image. He is not visible, He is every were... People just say that about pretty much every single part of the Bible... After all, it is God's word. How could it not be flawless? And why ignore certain parts of His wisdom? *sigh*

almost everything in the Bible is not literal because is indented to say more than the words written down. and this is the case. we are intelligent been (or being, don't really know) so we have the ability to see beyond the words, we can see the meaning of them... we can certainly learn from His wisdom, and i don't recall ignoring any part of it.

sergiodaly said: IIIIITHE1IIIII said: People just say that about pretty much every single part of the Bible... After all, it is God's word. How could it not be flawless? And why ignore certain parts of His wisdom? *sigh* almost everything in the Bible is not literal because is indented to say more than the words written down. and this is the case. we are intelligent been (or being, don't really know) so we have the ability to see beyond the words, we can see the meaning of them... we can certainly learn from His wisdom, and i don't recall ignoring any part of it.

So, all that stuff about homosexuality being a disgrace actually has a deeper meaning?

Good to know.

KeptoKnight said: Jay520 said: KeptoKnight said: If we had no free will, then whats the brain and the heart for? also Why do some of you say we have no free will? Our heart is to pump blood through our bodies. Our brains are to gain data from our sense and form actions based off them. Why is there no free will? Because a person's personality is completely determined by his environment and innate brain structure. Both of these factors are not in control of the person. I hear what you are saying. Give me a couple of mins.

Giving credit to kawgpz550, Matt Slick, I also added some of my words in between the lines. Sowwy for the long post >< I tried the best I can to simplify this lol.

1. By analogy, knowing what will happen does not mean that we are preventing or causing that thing to happen. The sun will rise tomorrow. I am not causing it to rise nor am I preventing it from rising by knowing that it will happen. Likewise, if I put a bowl of ice-cream and a bowl of cauliflower in front of my child, I know for a fact which one is chosen - the ice cream. My knowing it ahead of time does not restrict my child from making a free choice when the time comes. My child is free to make a choice and knowing the choice has no effect upon her when she makes it. 

Part of the issue here is the nature of time. If the future exists for God even as the present does, then God is consistently in all places at all times and is not restricted by time. This would mean that time was not a part of His nature to which God is subject, and that God is not a linear entity; that is, it would mean that God is not restricted to operating in our time realm and is not restricted to the present only. If God is not restricted to existence in the present, our present, then the future is known by God because God indwells the future as well as the present (and the past). This would mean that our future choices, as free as they are, are simply known by God. Again, our ability to choose is not altered or lessened by God existing in the future and knowing what we freely choose. It just means that God can see what we will freely choose -- because that is what we freely choose -- and knows what it is.

Logically, God knowing what we are going to do does not mean that we can't do something else. It means that God simply knows what we have chosen to do ahead of time. Our freedom is not restricted by God's foreknowledge; our freedom is simply realized ahead of time by God. In this, our natural ability to make another choice has not been removed any more than my choice of what to write. Before typing the word "hello," I pondered which word to write. My pondering was my doing and the choice was mine. How then was I somehow restricted in freedom when choosing what to write if God knew what I was going to do? No matter what choice we freely make, it can be known by God, and His knowing it doesn't mean we aren't making a free choice.

2. Is God sovereign or do we have a free will?

When we talk about free will, we are usually concerned with the matter of salvation. Few are interested in whether we have the free will to choose salad or steak for our dinner tonight. Rather, we are troubled over who exactly is in control of our eternal destiny.

Any discussion of man’s free will must begin with an understanding of his nature because man’s will is bound by that nature. A prisoner has the freedom to pace up and down in his cell, but he is constrained by the walls of that cell and can go no further, no matter how much his will might desire it. So it is with man. Because of sin, man is imprisoned within a cell of corruption and wickedness which permeates to the very core of our being. Every part of man is in bondage to sin – our bodies, our minds, and our wills. Jeremiah 17:9 tells us the state of man’s heart: it is “deceitful and desperately wicked.” In our natural, unregenerate state, we are carnally minded, not spiritually minded. “For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace because the carnal mind is enmity against God, for it is not subject to the Law of God, neither indeed can it be” (Romans 8:6-7). These verses tell us that before we are saved, we are at enmity (war) with God, we do not submit to God and His law, neither can we. The Bible is clear that, in his natural state, man is incapable of choosing that which is good and holy. In other words, he does not have the “free will” to choose God because his will is not free. It is constrained by his nature, just as the prisoner is constrained by his cell.

3. Conclusion:

There is no logical reason to claim that if God knows what choices we are going to make that it means we are not free. It still means that the free choices we will make are free -- they are just known ahead of time by God. If we choose something different, then that choice will have been eternally known by God. Furthermore, this knowledge by God does not alter our nature in that it does not change what we are -- free to make choices. God's knowledge is necessarily complete and exhaustive because that is His nature, to know all things. In fact, since He has eternally known what all our free choices will be, He has ordained history to come to the conclusion that He wishes including and incorporating our choices into His divine plan. Why?  Because God always knows all things: "...God is greater than our heart, and knows all things," - 1 John 3:20.

 On a side note: Libertarian free will, that a person is equally able to make choices between options independent of pressures or constraints from external or internal causes. Compatibilist free will holds that a person can choose only that which is consistent with his nature. Therefore, for example, a person who is a slave to sin (Rom. 6:14-20) and cannot understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14) would not be able to choose God of his own free will because his free will doesn't have the capacity to contradict his nature. There is much debate on these issues and, depending on which side you lean, your interpretation of scripture will be affected.