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Official 2020 US Election: Democratic Party Discussion

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And to those who don't believe me that the balanced budget amendment was a longtime Paul Ryan dream:

Here he is doing it in 2018:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/03/28/republicans-consider-balanced-budget-amendment-after-adding-more-than-1-trillion-to-the-deficit/

Here he is opposing it in 2011 because he wanted an even tougher version:
https://www.politico.com/story/2011/11/balanced-budget-amendment-rejected-068695

Here's an article explaining how the amendment is really just a ploy to cut Social Security and Medicare:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/04/11/gop-balanced-budget-amendment-shred-medicare-social-security-column/497678002/

This is what Joe Biden bragged about supporting, decades before Paul Ryan became Speaker. I'm not saying he's the second coming of Paul Ryan, not in the slightest, but he has terrible instincts for a Democrat. He's not just a centrist, he's bad at being a centrist.



ruior said:
LurkerJ said:

One of the major things that got him elected, isn't it? Him being among the few who calls out the mainstream media to their on their constant BS'ing. A lot of people end up relating to what he says because it's true despite the fact that he's a fake person.

Fortunately, Bernie has been critical of the media as well and has been telling people that the media isn't discussing the issues that affect their daily lives for decades, and you can bet Americans will ditch Trump for Bernie IF they're given the chance.

Who do you consider to be "mainstream media" and on the other side "non-mainstream media"? Thanks & cheers!

Heya.

A very difficult question to answer. MSM has become an overused term but I personally use it whenever journalists behave purposefully dense, or whenever a news network don't make big deals about what should be a big deal and vice versa. As for news sources, I use news aggregators and add as many news networks from different countries as possible, including French, German, Russian, Qatar, Saudi & Turkish news, and recently I have been following Chinese news as well. You get different perspectives on the same story.

You won't get the TheIntercept_ on any of the aggregators though, so that's one website I need to bookmark and follow: https://theintercept.com/about/

Apple News had a rough relationship with RT Russia, 

ZeroHedge is worth a read: https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/how-us-wages-war-prop-dollar, Globalresearch is another website I run into frequently: https://www.globalresearch.ca/hillary-emails-reveal-nato-killed-gaddafi-to-stop-libyan-creation-of-gold-backed-currency/5594742

There are also many independent political commentators on youtube that I follow, they highlight BS that airs on the MSM and add some valuable perspective to incomplete headlines, it's what they do for a living after all, so you can expect some political enlightenment. The downside of these youtube channels is that the commentators can be sensational. Nonetheless, here is a list if you're interested:

Secular Talk has been one of the few channels that tries to stick to logic & principles whenever he dissects any piece of news, Jimmy Dore is a bore-fest but he has his moments of brilliance, Krystal Balls from Rising/The Hill is a new fave, Dave Rubin has some really interesting guests sometimes but it's not always political, I stopped following the young turks because they disgusted me with their biased russiagate reporting. On the right side of the aisle, you have the Daily Caller, Tipping Point with Liz Wheeler, the controversial Ann Coulter, Akkad daily is rarely a good show to watch, as he's stuck in 2016 with the identity politics BS (a waste of talent, because he can formulate good arguments), Mark Steyn has some interesting guests on, Ben Shapiro might be your cup of tea. I guess if you look them up, youtube's algorithms will start juggling you between them and many more of the ones I forgot to mention. Keep in mind that I don't believe everything I read or link, I also acknowledge the fact that any of the above youtubers is capable of doing and saying unbelievably stupid things but so am I. 

Not sure if any of the above answers your question 

Edit: Economists are worth your time as well, check out the beautiful Micheal Hudson on youtube or read his articles: https://michael-hudson.com/2020/01/america-escalates-its-democratic-oil-war-in-the-near-east/

and speaking of balanced budgets & deficits: https://youtu.be/cCsxKy6Lbvg

Last edited by LurkerJ - on 19 January 2020

HylianSwordsman said:

Cerebralbore101 said:

I'm not a fan of Biden in the least. I hope he loses the nomination, because if he wins it we are losing the general election. That being said, the Bernie camp is spreading an outright lie about him wanting to shut down Social Security. I won't stand for that. Here's what Biden said in it's full context...

Biden is making fun of Paul Ryan's Social Security cuts, not promoting them.

Apparently no one bothered to click Uran's links. Biden may not have advocated "shutting down" Social Security in the clip above, just as he never advocated "shutting it down" but that doesn't mean he didn't advocate cutting it in some way. Here he is advocating freezing it, and sure, he advocates freezing all spending, but why freeze something that millions of seniors depend on to live?

Look how proud he is of that! Know what else he's proud of? Working to get a constitutional amendment to require a balanced budget, something that Paul Ryan wanted for years because it would FORCE the cutting of Social Security. Here's that:

And lest you say that was a long time ago, here he is running for President in 07, again supporting Social Security cuts.

If you want to call Bernie a liar, I can't stop you, but I suggest you believe Biden when he says he wants to cut Social Security, because these clips aren't hard to find and will make for some potent ads against Biden in the general election.

Thanks. I was just going off of what was said here.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2020/jan/09/bernie-sanders/did-biden-laud-paul-ryan-proposal-cut-social-secur/

It looks like PF is correct, but only in the instance of this one video. The bigger picture, as you've shown, is that Biden is one of those Democrats dumb enough to try to cut Social Security.

All I can say, is F that! I have student loans, and will likely need Social Security to retire on. I'll be using these clips at the caucus to get senior voters to walk over to the Bernie side.



The sentence below is false. 
The sentence above is true. 

Cerebralbore101 said:
HylianSwordsman said:

Apparently no one bothered to click Uran's links. Biden may not have advocated "shutting down" Social Security in the clip above, just as he never advocated "shutting it down" but that doesn't mean he didn't advocate cutting it in some way. Here he is advocating freezing it, and sure, he advocates freezing all spending, but why freeze something that millions of seniors depend on to live?

Look how proud he is of that! Know what else he's proud of? Working to get a constitutional amendment to require a balanced budget, something that Paul Ryan wanted for years because it would FORCE the cutting of Social Security. Here's that:

And lest you say that was a long time ago, here he is running for President in 07, again supporting Social Security cuts.

If you want to call Bernie a liar, I can't stop you, but I suggest you believe Biden when he says he wants to cut Social Security, because these clips aren't hard to find and will make for some potent ads against Biden in the general election.

Thanks. I was just going off of what was said here.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2020/jan/09/bernie-sanders/did-biden-laud-paul-ryan-proposal-cut-social-secur/

It looks like PF is correct, but only in the instance of this one video. The bigger picture, as you've shown, is that Biden is one of those Democrats dumb enough to try to cut Social Security.

All I can say, is F that! I have student loans, and will likely need Social Security to retire on. I'll be using these clips at the caucus to get senior voters to walk over to the Bernie side.

I mean, I don't want to convince you to vote for anyone, but it's dishonest to say he's for cutting social security when he has his real current positions on his website:

https://joebiden.com/older-americans/



Moren said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

Thanks. I was just going off of what was said here.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2020/jan/09/bernie-sanders/did-biden-laud-paul-ryan-proposal-cut-social-secur/

It looks like PF is correct, but only in the instance of this one video. The bigger picture, as you've shown, is that Biden is one of those Democrats dumb enough to try to cut Social Security.

All I can say, is F that! I have student loans, and will likely need Social Security to retire on. I'll be using these clips at the caucus to get senior voters to walk over to the Bernie side.

I mean, I don't want to convince you to vote for anyone, but it's dishonest to say he's for cutting social security when he has his real current positions on his website:

https://joebiden.com/older-americans/

I think it's been established that he has been on the record wanting to cut Social Security for decades. I don't vote based off of campaign promises. I vote based off of what somebody did or tried to get done in the past.

Bernie has been singing the same song since forever. 1990 Bernie would have told you the same thing that 2020 Bernie will tell you.

Biden obviously can't say that, about himself.



The sentence below is false. 
The sentence above is true. 

Moren said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

Thanks. I was just going off of what was said here.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2020/jan/09/bernie-sanders/did-biden-laud-paul-ryan-proposal-cut-social-secur/

It looks like PF is correct, but only in the instance of this one video. The bigger picture, as you've shown, is that Biden is one of those Democrats dumb enough to try to cut Social Security.

All I can say, is F that! I have student loans, and will likely need Social Security to retire on. I'll be using these clips at the caucus to get senior voters to walk over to the Bernie side.

I mean, I don't want to convince you to vote for anyone, but it's dishonest to say he's for cutting social security when he has his real current positions on his website:

https://joebiden.com/older-americans/

The point of outing his long-standing record on this is to illustrate that Biden isn't reliable and doesn't really have the people's interests at heart. Over the years he has continuously shown that whoever is lining his pockets will have their calls answered, even if that means throwing working and poor people under the bus. Whatever is politically expedient for him. He isn't reliable; his word means nothing because of this. We need a reliable and dependable president that stands by their word and is able to follow through and fight for the people's interests because they aren't bought out by special interests.

Last edited by tsogud - on 19 January 2020

 

To add to everyone else's point, remember a certain candidate touting how they had Private and Public positions? That's the norm unfortunately with the politicians. You have to look at their history and not what's on their current campaign. That's the trick they pull, and Biden again, has been on the wrong side of history for almost everything in the last 40 years. Campaign promises vs your record, and I will always choose your record every time.

If you have older family members or know older people who are thinking about voting Biden, show them that twitter thread, play those videos for them and show them the true Joe Biden. This man is fodder for Trump and even if he could beat Trump he really wouldn't be that much of an improvement. We don't have time for incrementalism when we have a dying planet.



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uran10 said:

On top of all of this, I also believe that there is a 0% chance of Joe Biden winning the presidency, aka beating Trump. His record is the embodiment of everything Trump ran against in 2016 and if you guys think he wont pull that fake populist thing again, you're crazy. He's already doing it on twitter by calling out the DNC planning on cheating Bernie in 2020.

Let me say this again, the only thing that can beat a fake right wing populist is a real Left Wing Populist.

Can it, though? That sort of dynamic quite didn't work out in Australia and the UK recently... or France and Germany, and most of Eastern Europe. Also, Russia and Japan. The examples I could mention go on and on. Of course, each country has its own set or rules, but do they completely escape from what's happening in the international political context?

Bernie has its own set of hurdles to overcome as the nominee. For once, kiss Florida goodbye and pray for the Rust Belt to deliver. Secondly, to pitch a good economy against a true democratic socialist who admits he'll increase middle-class taxes sounds exactly like what Trump would want if he's not running against a moderate. He isn't decrying injustice against Bernie because he wants him to fail after all.

I think some people underestimate the appeal of inertia in politics - how many people in the middle believe, right or wrong, that they need just a little something to change in their lives for things to be fine.

Edit - the same thing applies for all the White hillbillies who would despite any initiative about infrastructure or education in the rural areas and want only someone to deal with the nasy immigrants or own the libs or whatever.



 

 

 

 

 

haxxiy said:
uran10 said:

On top of all of this, I also believe that there is a 0% chance of Joe Biden winning the presidency, aka beating Trump. His record is the embodiment of everything Trump ran against in 2016 and if you guys think he wont pull that fake populist thing again, you're crazy. He's already doing it on twitter by calling out the DNC planning on cheating Bernie in 2020.

Let me say this again, the only thing that can beat a fake right wing populist is a real Left Wing Populist.

Can it, though? That sort of dynamic quite didn't work out in Australia and the UK recently... or France and Germany, and most of Eastern Europe. Also, Russia and Japan. The examples I could mention go on and on. Of course, each country has its own set or rules, but do they completely escape from what's happening in the international political context?

Bernie has its own set of hurdles to overcome as the nominee. For once, kiss Florida goodbye and pray for the Rust Belt to deliver. Secondly, to pitch a good economy against a true democratic socialist who admits he'll increase middle-class taxes sounds exactly like what Trump would want if he's not running against a moderate. He isn't decrying injustice against Bernie because he wants him to fail after all.

I think some people underestimate the appeal of inertia in politics - how many people in the middle believe, right or wrong, that they need just a little something to change in their lives for things to be fine.

Edit - the same thing applies for all the White hillbillies who would despite any initiative about infrastructure or education in the rural areas and want only someone to deal with the nasy immigrants or own the libs or whatever.

You have to understand that Bernie Sanders positions are centrist in other countries. In germany there is health care for everyone for instance and this is not in the least attacked by chancellor Merkel. In international standards america is extremely right-wing, that includes even democrats. So a left-wing populist for american standards is pretty centrist in most western countries and often someone like that is head of the government.



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haxxiy said:

Bernie has its own set of hurdles to overcome as the nominee. For once, kiss Florida goodbye and pray for the Rust Belt to deliver. Secondly, to pitch a good economy against a true democratic socialist who admits he'll increase middle-class taxes sounds exactly like what Trump would want if he's not running against a moderate. He isn't decrying injustice against Bernie because he wants him to fail after all.

Why Florida? Polls have shown Bernie doing fine there for months. Here's one from June:
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/06/18/2020-florida-poll-trump-biden-sanders-1368167

And there was one the other day that showed that even though Biden will probably win the Florida primary, Bernie does better than Biden in a head to head against Trump.

https://floridapolitics.com/archives/316062-joe-biden-expands-lead-in-florida-primary-fau-poll-shows

As for this "good economy" nonsense, the economy is NOT good. Just because we aren't in a recession...yet...doesn't mean it's good. Wage growth is crap and has been for a long time, living expenses are growing out of control and while a lot of new jobs are being created, they're shitty jobs that people need to work two or three of to get by. Benefits for those jobs are getting worse, people are being laid off even when companies are successful, and really, the only thing up is the stock market, which is meaningless to most Americans, because most stock is owned by rich people and trickle down doesn't work so those rich people increasing their net worth just because some companies stocks went up doesn't affect the larger economy. Inequality is getting worse every year, and while the rent-seeking class demands more and more of the rest of us, we have less and less to satisfy them with because they're already taking a bigger and bigger portion of created wealth. Economic mobility is worse than it's been in a long time. If you're born poor, you'll probably stay poor, and the rich's wealth is more protected than ever so you have to be Trump levels of incompetent to not stay rich (and even then, if you're Trump, you'll still be fine). The middle class is disintegrating as the cost of a middle class lifestyle rises faster than incomes grow. None of this is hard to understand, in fact as good as Bernie is at explaining it, he doesn't need to because it's patently obvious.

And Trump doesn't want Bernie to win the primary, in fact he expects him not to. He's decrying injustice against Bernie for the same reasons as he did in 2016, he expects Bernie to lose and wants Bernie's passionate fans to sit out the general election. It wasn't effective last time beyond a tiny vocal minority, and that minority will be even tinier this time, but I don't blame him for trying, every little bit helps, he only barely won last time. As for middle class taxes, Bernie already has a clear explanation for that: Your healthcare premium goes to zero, all other healthcare costs go to zero, the taxes that go up are less than the costs that go down, so you actually save thousands of dollars.

Last edited by HylianSwordsman - on 20 January 2020