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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - capcom not happy with darkside chronicles sales, mh3 + hardcore games talk

LordTheNightKnight on 06 January 2010
Gamerace said:
mike_intellivision said:
Metallicube said:
I think what Malstrom predicted is largely coming to fruition. 3rd parties are starting to scratch their heads about the lack of sales for their crappy "birdman" games so they will all retreat upmarket to where they feel comfortable; to the PS3 and 360 hardcore markets, until they go bankrupt or lose enormous amounts of money. Which will then open the floodgates to a plethora of indie devs eager to take advantage of the Wii success and the largely untapped expanded audience market.

Capcom is falling prey to this, like most other 3rd parties. Their logic is, well Umbrella Chronicles sold well, so a sequel should too right? But it's not always that simple to sell to the expanded audience. They demand something new, and appealing to them.

I think we have a winner here. If you look at the sales -- and the points I have made previously in this thread -- show this is exactly what is happening. 

That makes the Wii a high risk, high reward proposition -- which most people do not like.

 

Mike from Morgantown


Yes.  The problem here is to have huge success on Wii you basically have to create a fad.   Something new and unique that grabs everyone's interest, looks fun and gets people to try it out.   And figure out how to market it.

Nintendo did this with Wii Sports, again with Wii Fit, tried and failed with Wii Music and will try again with Vitality Sensor games.  Pokemon, Nintendogs, Brain Age, and some none Nintendo licenses like Monster Hunter (Japan only) and Sims have succeeded because they created their own fads (and often a host of copycats).  

But that's not easy to do.  And 3rd parties have zero experience.   They are good at following existing fads (the new popularity of FPS, Fitness titles and party titles) but not creating them.

That is not what a fad is.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

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mike_intellivision on 06 January 2010
Gamerace said:
mike_intellivision said:
Metallicube said:
I think what Malstrom predicted is largely coming to fruition. 3rd parties are starting to scratch their heads about the lack of sales for their crappy "birdman" games so they will all retreat upmarket to where they feel comfortable; to the PS3 and 360 hardcore markets, until they go bankrupt or lose enormous amounts of money. Which will then open the floodgates to a plethora of indie devs eager to take advantage of the Wii success and the largely untapped expanded audience market.

Capcom is falling prey to this, like most other 3rd parties. Their logic is, well Umbrella Chronicles sold well, so a sequel should too right? But it's not always that simple to sell to the expanded audience. They demand something new, and appealing to them.

I think we have a winner here. If you look at the sales -- and the points I have made previously in this thread -- show this is exactly what is happening. 

That makes the Wii a high risk, high reward proposition -- which most people do not like.

 

Mike from Morgantown


Yes.  The problem here is to have huge success on Wii you basically have to create a fad.   Something new and unique that grabs everyone's interest, looks fun and gets people to try it out.   And figure out how to market it.

Nintendo did this with Wii Sports, again with Wii Fit, tried and failed with Wii Music and will try again with Vitality Sensor games.  Pokemon, Nintendogs, Brain Age, and some none Nintendo licenses like Monster Hunter (Japan only) and Sims have succeeded because they created their own fads (and often a host of copycats).  

But that's not easy to do.  And 3rd parties have zero experience.   They are good at following existing fads (the new popularity of FPS, Fitness titles and party titles) but not creating them.

Not a fad -- just a different experience. And third parties have done this. Look at Carnival Games. Look at the rail shooters (when they first came out).

The difference is that with Wii gamers, once they have something that it is good, a much lower proportion than the industry norm are looking for the next iteration of the same concept with marginal improvements.

In other words, Wii gamers want revolutionary games, not evolutionary ones.

 

Mike from Morgantown

 



      


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Gamerace on 06 January 2010
mike_intellivision said:
Gamerace said:
mike_intellivision said:
Metallicube said:
I think what Malstrom predicted is largely coming to fruition. 3rd parties are starting to scratch their heads about the lack of sales for their crappy "birdman" games so they will all retreat upmarket to where they feel comfortable; to the PS3 and 360 hardcore markets, until they go bankrupt or lose enormous amounts of money. Which will then open the floodgates to a plethora of indie devs eager to take advantage of the Wii success and the largely untapped expanded audience market.

Capcom is falling prey to this, like most other 3rd parties. Their logic is, well Umbrella Chronicles sold well, so a sequel should too right? But it's not always that simple to sell to the expanded audience. They demand something new, and appealing to them.

I think we have a winner here. If you look at the sales -- and the points I have made previously in this thread -- show this is exactly what is happening. 

That makes the Wii a high risk, high reward proposition -- which most people do not like.

 

Mike from Morgantown


Yes.  The problem here is to have huge success on Wii you basically have to create a fad.   Something new and unique that grabs everyone's interest, looks fun and gets people to try it out.   And figure out how to market it.

Nintendo did this with Wii Sports, again with Wii Fit, tried and failed with Wii Music and will try again with Vitality Sensor games.  Pokemon, Nintendogs, Brain Age, and some none Nintendo licenses like Monster Hunter (Japan only) and Sims have succeeded because they created their own fads (and often a host of copycats).  

But that's not easy to do.  And 3rd parties have zero experience.   They are good at following existing fads (the new popularity of FPS, Fitness titles and party titles) but not creating them.

Not a fad -- just a different experience. And third parties have done this. Look at Carnival Games. Look at the rail shooters (when they first came out).

The difference is that with Wii gamers, once they have something that it is good, a much lower proportion than the industry norm are looking for the next iteration of the same concept with marginal improvements.

In other words, Wii gamers want revolutionary games, not evolutionary ones.

 

Mike from Morgantown

 

Carnival Games, Deca Sports, Game Party all rode Wii Sports coat tails to success.   Nothing revolutionary there.   Carnival was merely the first to follow Wii Sports mini-game compliation format.

Nothing revoluntionary about rail shooters either.   Again RE has a long standing history of being on Nintendo systems and the early Nintendo core adapters of Wii bought up RE4 and RE:UC.      HoTD 1&2 sold well as did Ghost Squad because people remember the fun of playing them in the arcades. 

Innovative gameplay alone has failed on Wii time and again.    Opoona, Elebits, Dewy, Zak & Wiki, Let's Tap, NiGHTS, Little King Story, Boogie, De Blob (did okay not great).   So has has putting solid motion controls on solid games with great effect from Godfather to Okami to Silent Hill or FF:CC:CB.

To succeed on Wii it's got to engage people's imagination in a way that they can immediately see the fun factor - Let's Dance and Big Game Hunter with it's bright orange rifle fit that bill currently.  Sadly they are not the best quality games.   Tony Hawk Ride sells decently on Wii for that same reason - despite it's price point. 

'Fad' may not be the best word, but it's got to have that 'fad' ability to excite people's imagination and get a lot of word of mouth.



 

LordTheNightKnight on 06 January 2010

Fad is not the right word at all. Wii has the magic that made Star Wars a hit, and that movie was destined to flop.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

theRepublic on 06 January 2010
mike_intellivision said:
Metallicube said:
I think what Malstrom predicted is largely coming to fruition. 3rd parties are starting to scratch their heads about the lack of sales for their crappy "birdman" games so they will all retreat upmarket to where they feel comfortable; to the PS3 and 360 hardcore markets, until they go bankrupt or lose enormous amounts of money. Which will then open the floodgates to a plethora of indie devs eager to take advantage of the Wii success and the largely untapped expanded audience market.

Capcom is falling prey to this, like most other 3rd parties. Their logic is, well Umbrella Chronicles sold well, so a sequel should too right? But it's not always that simple to sell to the expanded audience. They demand something new, and appealing to them.

I think we have a winner here. If you look at the sales -- and the points I have made previously in this thread -- show this is exactly what is happening. 

That makes the Wii a high risk, high reward proposition -- which most people do not like.

 

Mike from Morgantown

Considering the price of development, I don't consider the Wii to be high risk.  It's just that third parties have no clue how to tap into the reward part on the Wii, while the same-old-same-old continues to work on the PS3 and 360.



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LordTheNightKnight on 06 January 2010
theRepublic said:
mike_intellivision said:
Metallicube said:
I think what Malstrom predicted is largely coming to fruition. 3rd parties are starting to scratch their heads about the lack of sales for their crappy "birdman" games so they will all retreat upmarket to where they feel comfortable; to the PS3 and 360 hardcore markets, until they go bankrupt or lose enormous amounts of money. Which will then open the floodgates to a plethora of indie devs eager to take advantage of the Wii success and the largely untapped expanded audience market.

Capcom is falling prey to this, like most other 3rd parties. Their logic is, well Umbrella Chronicles sold well, so a sequel should too right? But it's not always that simple to sell to the expanded audience. They demand something new, and appealing to them.

I think we have a winner here. If you look at the sales -- and the points I have made previously in this thread -- show this is exactly what is happening. 

That makes the Wii a high risk, high reward proposition -- which most people do not like.

 

Mike from Morgantown

Considering the price of development, I don't consider the Wii to be high risk.  It's just that third parties have no clue how to tap into the reward part on the Wii, while the same-old-same-old continues to work on the PS3 and 360.

Except it only works for the hit series, while most of the same old, same old is a money sink. So the rist assumption ignores the fact that the alternative is a loss certainty.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

Hobowan on 06 January 2010

This is a long old thread and im not finished reading it all yet, but im hearing lots on cod reflex, and thought id jutt in with a point.

Cod is selling really well at the moment because it has a number of HUGE factors against it:

1) its two years old.
2) on the same day, its sequel was released for the other consoles.
3) a large proportion of the demographic interested in it have already played it and/or have the sequel
4) it had no marketing, not even banners on the net...because...
5) it was stealth released under the shadow of the sequel, so was unoticed by all expect wii only owners.
(you may argue that this would help it sell, but the first few weeks figures were hardly impressive, but picked up since the furor died down, so in theory it could have helped, in practice it didnt)

But it will top a million by a fair way and perform really well, despite the above.

so, that begs a question:

If this had been release at the time, when it was new and the wii still had an active core market, (metroid, RE4, Red steel, RE:UC, all sold their millions around this time period), how much would it have sold then?

double? Triple?
easily.

how much would MW2 wii have sold if the above had happened? probably double or triple MW1 has recently too.

so i wonder why the 3 huge publishers, EA, SEGA and Capcom are all missing this - there is so much more meaning in the performance of MW wii than you think.

Either way, rail shooters, self destructive devs/pubs, RE5, MW, core audiences aside....these are dark time for a core wii man.

i hope MW, MH3 and NMH2 give them more faith.

however, if they have a break in developing now, then 2011 will be third party core empty, just like 2008 was, and that truely will be the end of the core wii market.
it amazes me how they will make the same mistake again and create their own graves.

it was their own lack of core development which lost the wii its core audience, then they suffer the consequences, and then do it again just when they start making headway!

they are always one step behind the market, and operate without any long term strategy on the wii.

i wonder how they survive at all as businesses the way they think and carry on.

bah. rant over.



Muramasa: the Demon Blade

jammy2211 on 06 January 2010
theRepublic said:
mike_intellivision said:
Metallicube said:
I think what Malstrom predicted is largely coming to fruition. 3rd parties are starting to scratch their heads about the lack of sales for their crappy "birdman" games so they will all retreat upmarket to where they feel comfortable; to the PS3 and 360 hardcore markets, until they go bankrupt or lose enormous amounts of money. Which will then open the floodgates to a plethora of indie devs eager to take advantage of the Wii success and the largely untapped expanded audience market.

Capcom is falling prey to this, like most other 3rd parties. Their logic is, well Umbrella Chronicles sold well, so a sequel should too right? But it's not always that simple to sell to the expanded audience. They demand something new, and appealing to them.

I think we have a winner here. If you look at the sales -- and the points I have made previously in this thread -- show this is exactly what is happening. 

That makes the Wii a high risk, high reward proposition -- which most people do not like.

 

Mike from Morgantown

Considering the price of development, I don't consider the Wii to be high risk.  It's just that third parties have no clue how to tap into the reward part on the Wii, while the same-old-same-old continues to work on the PS3 and 360.

 If the game is going to be as good as a HD developement third party type game, and marketed the same, then it is a high risk. The marketing alone for a HD game is normally set up a minimum of $10 million 0_o.

 Certainly would cost less to develope, but you're losing $10 per copy sold too.



LordTheNightKnight on 06 January 2010
jammy2211 said:
theRepublic said:
mike_intellivision said:
Metallicube said:
I think what Malstrom predicted is largely coming to fruition. 3rd parties are starting to scratch their heads about the lack of sales for their crappy "birdman" games so they will all retreat upmarket to where they feel comfortable; to the PS3 and 360 hardcore markets, until they go bankrupt or lose enormous amounts of money. Which will then open the floodgates to a plethora of indie devs eager to take advantage of the Wii success and the largely untapped expanded audience market.

Capcom is falling prey to this, like most other 3rd parties. Their logic is, well Umbrella Chronicles sold well, so a sequel should too right? But it's not always that simple to sell to the expanded audience. They demand something new, and appealing to them.

I think we have a winner here. If you look at the sales -- and the points I have made previously in this thread -- show this is exactly what is happening. 

That makes the Wii a high risk, high reward proposition -- which most people do not like.

 

Mike from Morgantown

Considering the price of development, I don't consider the Wii to be high risk.  It's just that third parties have no clue how to tap into the reward part on the Wii, while the same-old-same-old continues to work on the PS3 and 360.

 If the game is going to be as good as a HD developement third party type game, and marketed the same, then it is a high risk. The marketing alone for a HD game is normally set up a minimum of $10 million 0_o.

 Certainly would cost less to develope, but you're losing $10 per copy sold too.

The marketing for HD games is because of the higher development costs. So you claiming those are the same circumstances shows you aren't paying attention to the numbers.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

Bruno Muñoz on 06 January 2010

“This is the year of the emergence of so-called new console generation. It feels a position clear of the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 in the market. This does not necessarily feel in the figures, because the Wii is still an important part of sales, but growth is on both platforms. The DS is declining, for reasons various and varied as market saturation and piracy. For these same reasons, the PSP is dying. The Wii console is very much a family commitment rates relatively low. So for us, Capcom, the future is the PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360.”

 

 

So no Devil May Cry 5, Resident Evil 6 and Street Fighter V for Wii?