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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Miyamoto: Not EVERYTHING needs to be 3D! (Do you AGREE?!)

2D > 3D

Back in the days of the NES/SNES, how many more gamers (including casuals) were there then there are now?



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Look, I wasnt expecting my opinion to be popular. But it is my opinion.

@Khuutra

Is my information wrong or something?



I couldn't agree more, a nice balance between the two would be great.

There is however an element in the gaming community that still seems to see less value in 2D games than 3D.

The position that every game would be better in 3D is indefensible. If you are talking in the theoretical speculative sense, then maybe, otherwise reality disagrees with you.



hsrob said:
I couldn't agree more, a nice balance between the two would be great.

There is however an element in the gaming community that still seems to see less value in 2D games than 3D.

The position that every game would be better in 3D is indefensible. If you are talking in the theoretical speculative sense, then maybe, otherwise reality disagrees with you.


If its that persons opinion thats all that matters, its not like there are facts to back up that 2D gaming is superior to 3D gaming in anyway and vice versa,  its all a matter of opinion.  So reality disagrees with you



Vote for yes, some games don't need to be 3d. I've had some ideas that I could never adjust to 3d play style.



Squilliam: On Vgcharts its a commonly accepted practice to twist the bounds of plausibility in order to support your argument or agenda so I think its pretty cool that this gives me the precedent to say whatever I damn well please.

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Vetteman94 said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
vetteman, you're confusing polygonal graphics with 3D. Little Big Planet is what's known as 2.5D, same as Super Mario Bros Wii.

As for improving, not always. Sprites use less resources, for one thing, so they improve performance (unless the game has loads of complex sprites).


No I believe you are the one who is confused.  Every model in LBP is rendered in full 3D, the perspective is what gives it the 2D feel, and the limitation of movement to only side to side and up and down

That is what defines a game as 2D.  You can only move in two directions.  The gameplay in LBP is much closer to Super Mario Bros. than Super Mario Galaxy, because a third dimension of movement greatly changes both the gameplay possibilities (by creating new ones and limiting others), and by the way you interact with the game (controlling a character in 3D is much different than controlling one in 2D).  LBP is a 2D game whether you want to admit it or not.  2D vs. 3D is determined by gameplay, not by whether the characters are created with lines or polygons. 



Theres nothing like playing a good old 2d game.

Isometric 2d RPG's and 2d platformers are the bomb!



Vetteman94 said:
Khuutra said:
Vetteman94 said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
vetteman, you're confusing polygonal graphics with 3D. Little Big Planet is what's known as 2.5D, same as Super Mario Bros Wii.

As for improving, not always. Sprites use less resources, for one thing, so they improve performance (unless the game has loads of complex sprites).

No I believe you are the one who is confused.  Every model in LBP is rendered in full 3D, the perspective is what gives it the 2D feel, and the limitation of movement to only side to side and up and down. 

Allow me to speak for him (I hope you don't mind, Lord).

Vetteman, what he means is that you're confusing "has 3-D graphics" with "being a 3-D game". New Super Mario Bros Wii already has 3-D graphics, it's just played in 2-D. Like decent Sonic games.

And you didn't really answer any of my questions.

Your perspective on this question is kind of bizarre. When did you start console gaming?

I started gaming on an Atari 2600.   So what does that have to do with anything?

He was saying that NSMB Wii was like LBP in being 2.5D which was only given to LBP because of its limited movement in the 3rd dimension.  But everything else is in 3D,  which is what I would classify as a 3D game.  So While the movement is limited to only 2 directions I still believe LBP is a 3D game.   And if that is the same way that NSMB Wii is then fantastic.

Look, 2.5D is a term created to define games that have 3D graphics but 2D gameplay. So LBP is 2.5D by definition, it doesn't matter if you'd classify it as 3D or whatever.

And since Miyamoto used NSMB Wii, a 2.5D game like LBP, as an exemple of 2D game, it's clear he was talking about the gameplay, not the graphics. So, in the context of this trhead and his quotes, LBP is, in fact, a 2D game.

Also, on another reply, you said you couldn't see NSMB Wii as being more fun than Galaxy, even though you just said earlier you had no knowlodge of the game. It seems like you're just being stubborn and supposing you're right even if you have no clear reason to believe so.



Vetteman94 said:
Chrizum said:
Vetteman94 said:
darthdevidem01 said:
@Vetteman

how is LBP in 3D?

the core gameplay is played in a 2D way right?

I mean even NSMB Wii is semi 2D like LBP I think (???)


Everything that is made in LBP is 3D,  you just only see it from one perspective.  

As for the core game play part, technically yes since it is a side scroller, and you only have to directions you can move.  The mulitple planes they used was just a way to enhance the sidescroller feel. 

I dont know anything about NSMB Wii

How about Tetris? Better in 3D? And Minesweeper?


If done correctly, absolutely they would be better

What do you mean? You're too vauge. We can't trust an opinion that is stated in wishy washy terms.

What specifically do you mean by them being in 3D, and how would they be improved.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

Vetteman94 said:
hsrob said:
I couldn't agree more, a nice balance between the two would be great.

There is however an element in the gaming community that still seems to see less value in 2D games than 3D.

The position that every game would be better in 3D is indefensible. If you are talking in the theoretical speculative sense, then maybe, otherwise reality disagrees with you.


If its that persons opinion thats all that matters, its not like there are facts to back up that 2D gaming is superior to 3D gaming in anyway and vice versa,  its all a matter of opinion.  So reality disagrees with you

So if it's as narrow as YOU think all games are/would be better in 3D I have to ask, do you prefer every single 3D iteration of every series more than it's 2D predecessor?  Which ones have you played?

People use Mario as an example to say that platformers work in 3D but Mario's gameplay mechanics changed fundamentally in the transition to 3D. And to clarify something that was mentioned earlier, games like NSMBWii, while having 3D graphics have 2D play mechanics.  I do not believe a fast paced, point to point platformer would gain anything from moving into the third dimension other than making the game significantly harder and less playable.