Sorcery said: selnor said: MetalGearSolid_4ever said: @selnor Whatever man. Some tech geeks just wrote up an article showing how GT5P looks better than Forza 3.. This thread wasn't about physics, it was about the graphics of both games. by the way, even though Forza 3 is 360Hz or 120Hz, it wouldn't matter for graphics since as I know physics aren't a part of the graphics card.. LOL Do you understand anyhting about how it all works? I dont profess to know everything, but this is fairly obvious. Almost all great graphics games have the CPU help out the GPU for graphics. My point was for FM3 they couldnt do that because they needed the CPU to do the wealth of calculations for the rest of the game. If you take the physics simulation down by more than half to GT5P level, that frees up alot of resources of the CPU. Obviously that means they could have had a higher res, more cars etc. When looking at tech of a game, certainly a sim you have to consider everything. Also is it more impressive that they achieved the level they did with all considered? When playing each yes GT5P is in a higher res and a more real coulor pallette, but it's obvious GT5P is bland in comparison and much less real in the physics department. A tech achievement is what the console is doing as a whole. Becasue resources have to be shared. No, the CPU doesn't really help out with the graphics. Sure, the CPU will relay data to the GPU, but when it comes to triangles, pixels in a texture, lighting, and all the other things we associate with good graphics... well, that comes down to the GPU. I can't say much about the PS3 since I don't understand how the SPE's work, and because it's so unusual to link a CPU to a GPU like the PS3 does, but other than animations and physics there really isn't much that the CPU does.

Not quite. A GPU has it's own CPU essentially on the chip followed with other factors. It can be quite easy to maximise a GPU's top performance. Alot of 360 games have the CPU doing mathmatic equations for the graphics ( of which there are LOADS ). polygons, the maths involved for a lighting system etc etc, all these can be helped by a CPU. Obviously the display stuff is ALWAYS done on the GPU. But there is alot where a CPU can help. Any 3d object can be helped out by the CPU for instance making it alot less stressful for the GPU, freeing more resource to do things like higher res and more objects. But the game would take a hit in physics so.....

STOP ! THE FLAMES ARE KILLING ME ! AAAGH !

I think we deserve a cookie for having a civilized discussion!

And if I knew how to insert images I'd give us one... but I don't, so you'll have to imagine it.

Yeah lol. Thats because instead of saying ' I think it is better' you actually use examples which make sense. I like people like you. :)

GT5p>Forza 3
GT3> Forza 3

Graphically speaking there isn't any game that can touch the GT series.

Gameswire added a link on their initial graphics comparison on GT5P vs Forza 3.

http://www.gameswire.net/screenshots/screenshot-179-0002-28542175.html

There is a big difference in graphics when comparing the two pictures.  Forza 3 brings an overall package (graphics wise and technical) that GT5P lacks and Forza 3 tops it off with a great physics engine that rival PC Sims (i.e. Inside Racing Sim).  People are far fetching the superiority of GT5P over Forza 3.  Turn 10 did a great job with graphics and physics, physics especially.   Dan Greenawalt extenisvly explains why Forza 3 has a great physics engine.₁

' "Tires are the absolute heart of any driving simulator," says Forza game director Dan Greenawalt. "You have to get the tires right. If the tires aren't right the simulation is worth nothing. Suspension is extremely easy to do frankly. It's a three-point architecture or a four-point architecture; it's just straight up math, spring rates, dampening and un-sprung weight." Forza 3's advanced system uses tire flexion, heat build-up and weight transfer as well as the grip quotient of the track surface to provide super-realistic handling. Older cars with balloon tires feel like they're on stilts and float through the corners while modern cars with good tires and a proper set-up can claw tenaciously at the road providing a stable, confident feel." '

http://www.audizine.com/features/article.php?tid=12

' “Our physics model is like a weather system in that all the parameters are intimately interrelated,” says Forza game director Dan Greenawalt. “So weather forecasting is more accurate now than it was two years ago, which was more accurate than two years before that. So a weather forecasting system from eight to 10 years ago is thoroughly obsolete. Same with game physics.”  “It comes down to learning more about variables; the eastern tradewinds, heat from the surface, the effects of hot and cold fronts on a more detailed scale, wind, pressure, moisture, there are a whole bunch of variables. Well tire physics are just the same you have ambient temperature, heat coming off the pavement, how you drive the tire, how far over peak you go which heats up the outside of the tire then the gases inside the tire heat up changing the air pressure inside the tire. The road surface’s coefficient of friction, how smooth it is, its incline and the consequences of that extra heat on the overall handling characteristics of the car in question including the tire width, sidewall size and compound, the suspension’s habits, vehicle weight and driveline configuration and many other contributing variables. We have tried to think of all the angles.”
“All that heat ingestion effects how tire deformation works. It is all inter-related. '

http://www.nicoclub.com/articles/forza-g35.shtml

Kazunori Yamauchi never spoke about (GT5 physics)₂ to this extent.  Labelling a game "The Real Driving Simulator" standards have to be met.  Turn 10 made an awesome physics engine with great all aorund graphics too boot, that clearly beat GT5P.  Polyphony has to bring it’s “A” game by either matching or significantly surpassing Turn 10, and I don't mean by only graphics and physics(they need to catch up in physics) I mean by innovation also.(http://www.xbox360achievements.org/news/news-3604-Dan-Greenawalt-Interview--Forza-3.html)Question #6,#7.

_{1 (More Dan Greenawalt interviews of him talking about chassis and other stuff, but I'm taking a lot of space with this post...so look it up yourself and if you can’t find one tell me. I'll gladly add a link to an article or video, the forza site has articles also)}

_{2 (I mean GT5 not the other Gt's because Yamauchi said they got rid of the legacy code and built GT5 from scratch)}

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFfeJYyYFNk

Forza 3? dude forza 3 has too many bugs its just a video game, gt has netcode bugs reverse bugs and very few in general unlike forza 3 just go look at the bugs its horrendous, i played forza 3 for 2 weeks its no GT dude, it says 100 tracks buts its more like 25 if you minus the variations

Agreed dudes. I'm sorry, but I enjoy both games. I have both systems, but Forza3 has way too many bugs. Whichever game you think looks better, thats a matter of oppinion and choice. To ME... GT series looks better. Forza uses too many shadows to dramatize the track and entertain your eyes. Since when can you not see the rims of your car when looking left or right in broad daylight due to the shadows on the sides of the car ? I did not know the sun was a spotlight that darkens everything around the single object it hits head on. And NO its not my tv's brightness or contrast. Every other 360 game look amazing on my screen.

Secondly, Forza3 has lots of trouble keeping up its high res textures and shadows it so boldly proclaimed as I progress into faster and faster A class vehicles.This never happens in GT for me.

You can EASILY tell they have a short radius around the car you are driving and bump up the textures and shadows as you are approached or get closer to oponent AI cars and areas of the track with said radius. It may be my 360 crapping out, and if thats the case, I wont buy another one. Not enough exclusive titles to warrant the price at this time.

Aside from that, i've had my Gas and Brake controls lock on me. I'm racing with all assists off, AND have swapped to my wired controller thinking my wireless one was crapping out. No Dice. It just randomly decides to lock my speed for 2 seconds on a turn. Super frustrating.

Lastly, it may just be me, but in the interior view in Forza3, the drivers hands, dont seem to move accordingly with the amount of steering it would be required for certain turns. I'm talking about when I go into the Hair Pin turn at 20mph at Spains Catalunya cercuit, and my analog or driving wheel is turned ALL THE WAY LEFT, why are my interior drivers hands only at around 35 degree radius?? I'm in a hair pin turn, not changing lanes. Those hands and that steering wheel need to be at 60 or more. (Not to mention when looking back while in interior view, you get kicked out to a bumper cam. GT makes you look out the back window of a car. And good luck if that car is an older modle rear engine car, you wont be seeing much except a reving retrained monster trying to eat the back of your head. lol.

I enjoy both GT5(prologue) and Forza 3, i HATE, HATE when a company boasts about textures or something else, and then doesnt deliver. IMO, Gran Turismo series looks better and drives better than Forza3, track for track and car for car. Interiors as well. It just lacks the darker shadows Forza uses to dramatize the track, making GT look a little plain. Everyone knows GT needs Damage, luckily it was given that for its 5th installment. The demo was great with the Nissan Z, so i'll be purchasing the game come March.