You are just trying to justify a criminal act.  The value of a piece of software is the code and digital assets, not the physical media that it is stored on.  The fact that a pirate is able to commit this crime from the relative safety of their home, does not diminish the fact that it is a crime to copy/download a copy protected file.  It may appear to be a victimless crime, but this type of theft hurts employees(people) at developers (employers of people) very much.  I have no concerns over fairness, I am concerned that I pay more for games; am subjected DRM mechanisms, and cannot play certain games on my system of choice because of pirates.

pirating is the only "immoral" option here. Buying used is fine as the developer sees money for the first sale. Its the developers fault for not making a game with better replay value

For example, if you bought the game over the internet, and it was delivered to your house, but someone stole it, while you were away. It should be ok for that person to download that game, that he already paid for. Then it's should be fair.:)

Pirating is of course immoral renting is fine and lending is fine too. If someone takes you on a ride with his car to next town is that immoral because the train Company lost a ticket they could have sold ?

But I would have a question to you all I am curios what you will answer:

If someone pirated a game it is immoral of course. But if this person wouldnt have any money and never intended to buy this game/software anyway. And didnt distributed the software to other people. Would that be immoraly ?

I mean everyone would say yes. But infact the Company lost nothing the person wouldn`t have bought the game/software anyway. The person did not harm anyone (in the reality) and he gained. Infact someone has won and none has lost really.

Its like reading a newspaper which lied on a park bench.



Ofcourse its illegal but is this really immoraly ? Its a profit for the world in an utilitarian way.

Its impossible to judge this from outside. It couldnt be used as a practical way. But if we take this as a fact the person would never be able to buy this game and has not provided copies to other people would this be immoral ? Illegal yes but immoral I think of poor kids in third or second World Countries. And yes some of them have old Electronics which is seen as trash in Europe or America. I am not talking about the really poor people. But is a Windows 98 Copy in Africa on a 10 year old PC really immoral. Or PS1-2 Games which maybe are one of the last pleasures of (middle) poor kids is. Or just someone wo has copied a game which he never would have rented or bought is this immoral ?

Is copying a older game as immoral as copying a new one ( The company would have lost more money because the software value decreases as time goes on)

They all hurt the industry but Pirating is obviously the worst

Second hand is worse tha piracy when it comes to morallity.

However using your logic then pirating is fine too. It's the developer's fault they didn't make a game that people thought was worth the money and for not providing enough incentives for them no to pirate.

@vlad321

Im glad your such a zealot at buying new games im sure all the developers love you

As for second hand what exactly is immoral about it? The person who originally bought it has every right to do whatever he wants with it. Selling it to someone else is one of those rights.

By your definition then buying a used car is immoral too because the Manufacturer doesnt see money from it. is that whay your trying to say?

@Khuutra with your fancy words:
DO YOU THINK YOUR BETTER THAN ME!?

No, that summed it up about right, though I still consider piracy theft just because I'm difficult  (and FFXII sucks). :-p

"Just a quick math to show that second hand is morally wworse than pirating:

Pirating:
1 guy pay $50 and then a bunch of other get it for free. Developers/publishers see $50 only.

Second Hand:
1 guy pays $50 and then sells it along. Developer/publisher gets only $50 while each person who owns the game MAKES money off of their idea.

End result:

Second hand people are more greedy and immoral than pirates."

Quoted from above.

As for your example with the car it is uttely false. A car is a physical thing that requires materials to make and whatnot. When you buys the car you buy the materials. All you do with video games is buy an idea. It is a faulty analogy.

Okay, cool. Now we know where both of you stand.

So.

Is there any point on which either of you would be willing to give?

Twesterm, is it ever morally justifiable to pirate games? Games that are out of print? Abandonware?

Scottie, is it ever unjustifiable to pirate games even when one lacks the means to pay for them? Does the fact that you would still need to pay for hardware matter?