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Forums - Gaming - Can Japanese games ever catch up?

Riachu on 15 October 2009
sugarEXpress said:

Very very ignorant views. But on your second question: Shooters don't sell in japan. RTS don't sell on consoles unless its Halo and No More Heroes is sandbox and if you realy think about it, there are not realy many sandbox games, perhaps 1-2 per year.

Japanese gamers don't like non-linearity in their games.  They like to have a focused path.  GTA sells pretty well there but there are place markers for where the missions are so that kind of lifts some of the pains of other non linear games.



 

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ocnkng on 15 October 2009
bugrimmar said:
what about the fact the japan is very limited in terms of creating games in other genres, like shooters, RTS, and sandbox?

First of all your OP is based completely on your subjective opinions.

Metal Gear Solid is the biggest selling exclusive on the PS3 and is a AAA rated GOTY of 2008. If you or someone else doesn't like it, then its their opinion, but you will find many more who do absolutely love it.

Resident Evil could have been panned by some, but still has very high metacritic rating (85) and sold tons more then DS or even Bioshock.

Final Fantasy is going to sell many many times more then ANY western RPG and for god's sake it hasn't even released.

Same goes for Gran Turismo, the highest selling franchise in the history of gaming and hasn't yet released and you pass judgement on it.

The only point that I can agree with is FPS, yes japan does not have any product in the genre.

But RTS is completely irrelevant in consoles.

And when it comes to sandbox maybe you heard of an obscure franchis called YAKUZA??

And when you talk about innovation try a title called Demon's Souls which is by far the best RPG this generation and ya its extremely innovative.



 

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outlawauron on 15 October 2009
bugrimmar said:
what about the fact the japan is very limited in terms of creating games in other genres, like shooters, RTS, and sandbox?

Demand for those genres in their home market.

 

I don't blame western devs for the lack of dating sims, RPGs, and fighting games.



"We'll toss the dice however they fall,
And snuggle the girls be they short or tall,
Then follow young Mat whenever he calls,
To dance with Jak o' the Shadows."

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The Anarchyz on 15 October 2009
bugrimmar said:

It seems that the best games in every genre, except fighting perhaps, are now made by the West. Among the old guard of Japanese franchises, some have been bested, some now have very stiff competition from the West.

Resident Evil (survival horror) has been panned by critics, told that the game feels ancient, and no longer scary. Dead Space and Bioshock have risen to be strong contenders for the king of the horror genre.

Devil May Cry (hack and slash), which once was the premier slasher, has fallen to the wayside, and has been soundly replaced by God of War.

Metal Gear Solid (stealth action), once the most revolutionary and advanced game of it's genre, is now under stiff competition from the likes of Batman: Arkham Asylum, Assassin's Creed, and Splinter Cell.

Gran Turismo (racing) has always had an air of invincibility. Though the 5th installment has yet to release, it already has stiff competition from Forza, with reviewers hailing it to be at the least an equal to Polyphony's racer.

Final Fantasy (RPG) also has had this air of invincibility, but trends show that it's popularity is declining. 13 would be a clear signal of where this franchise will go in the future, but right now, Bethesda's Fallout and Oblivion series are already claiming the mantles of best RPGs.

It seems Mario is the only giant Japanese franchise left that has yet to have a true rival.

On the other side of the coin, the West has games in other genres that have no rivals at all from Japan. Japan does not produce shooters, RTS, or sandbox games that are worth noting. Innovation has also mostly been coming from the West, with games like Littlebigplanet.

So do you guys think that Japanese games can still catch up with the West? 

Oblivion and Fallout 3??? in terms of WRPGs they don't come near Mass Effect...

Of course, i prefer Final Fantasy over WRPGs any time of day, in fact, i play more JRPGs than WRPGs, i'm just more interested in them...

Gran Turismo is still the king of racing simulation... Need for Speed beats it in absolute sales, but overall quality and sales per/game is still GT territory...

The thing is, Japan was the king of console games because most western devs moved to PCs once the crash occured, so Japan took the lead on consoles, but once the systems got near and near PCs the best W devs started moving to consoles again with games like Tomb Raider, and Sony itself got W devs like Naughty Dog (Crash Bandicoot) and Insomniac (Spyro), Nintendo always had Rare but with the N64 they did one epic shooter (Goldeneye), Rockstar North brought Grand Theft Auto, and the list goes on...

The final trigger was the Xbox, a real US contender almost 20 years later, it proved that FPS, WRPGs and other PC genres can be succesful on consoles, the flagship of that idea was Halo, once people went berserk for it, FPS devs also moved, then the other genres followed, today with the HD consoles, the only barrier left was brought down: The screen resolution, remember that PCs by 2005 could handle more than 1024x768, while TVs still had 480i (640x480/720x480 in pixels), but with 360 and PS3 both supporting 1280x720, PC devs don't have that excuse anymore (except on the Wii, but that's a different story)...

So now, W devs are fully back on consoles and J devs now have a fierce competition that they didn't have for a lot of years...



Carl on 15 October 2009
bugrimmar said:

It seems that the best games in every genre, except fighting perhaps, are now made by the West. Among the old guard of Japanese franchises, some have been bested, some now have very stiff competition from the West.

Resident Evil (survival horror) has been panned by critics, told that the game feels ancient, and no longer scary. Dead Space and Bioshock have risen to be strong contenders for the king of the horror genre. Res Evil is still top notch, and has the sales to back it up.

Devil May Cry (hack and slash), which once was the premier slasher, has fallen to the wayside, and has been soundly replaced by God of War.

Metal Gear Solid (stealth action), once the most revolutionary and advanced game of it's genre, is now under stiff competition from the likes of Batman: Arkham Asylum, Assassin's Creed, and Splinter Cell. MGS has both the quality and the sales. It is still the best in the Stealth genre.

Gran Turismo (racing) has always had an air of invincibility. Though the 5th installment has yet to release, it already has stiff competition from Forza, with reviewers hailing it to be at the least an equal to Polyphony's racer. Hard to say which will win with reviews, Forza is likely to drop to 92/91. No idea how reviewers will take to GT5 yet. But no doubt about it... GT5 will outsell Forza 3.

Final Fantasy (RPG) also has had this air of invincibility, but trends show that it's popularity is declining. 13 would be a clear signal of where this franchise will go in the future, but right now, Bethesda's Fallout and Oblivion series are already claiming the mantles of best RPGs. You left out Bioware.... But still, we are yet to see the biggest HD JRPG of the gen (so far) get released, so we can't say anything about it. And you forgot Pokemon, which has quality and huge sales. Oh, and Valkyria Chronicles > Fallout + Oblivion. 

It seems Mario is the only giant Japanese franchise left that has yet to have a true rival. Platformers? Quality-wise, Little Big Planet. Sales-wise... Nothing.

On the other side of the coin, the West has games in other genres that have no rivals at all from Japan. Japan does not produce shooters, RTS, or sandbox games that are worth noting. Innovation has also mostly been coming from the West, with games like Littlebigplanet.

So do you guys think that Japanese games can still catch up with the West? They don't need to catch up, they doing just fine.

That's what i think.



                            

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loves2splooge on 15 October 2009

Fallout 3, if you count multi-plat sales, is the best selling hd rpg. At over 4 million worldwide. I think Final Fantasy XIII will have no problem beating that number. Just simply because it's Final Fantasy. There was some discussion in a previous thread as to whether FFXIII would beat FFXII considering that many fans and critics are sick of jrpgs now. But I suppose it does make a difference that FFXIII will be the first one on the hd consoles. And the critics have shown to be shamelessly pro-Final Fantasy XII even though they were ripping on the genre since before FFXII. Though even if FFXIII beats FFXII, FFXIII will certainly not reach FFX levels given how much the jrpg fanbase has shrunk.

Now if we are going to talk Americas, then FFXIII doesn't have a chance in hell at #1 rpg sales over there. Oblivion, if you count multi-plat sales, narrowly beat FFX! That is huge. There is a changing of the guard in Americas for sure. Maybe FFXIII will win in Europe/Others but who knows. What we do know is that FFXIII will win worldwide solely because of Japan, which is pretty much like cheating (lol) when you consider how poorly the wrpgs have been selling there.



outlawauron on 15 October 2009
loves2splooge said:
Fallout 3, if you count multi-plat sales, is the best selling hd rpg. At over 4 million worldwide. I think Final Fantasy XIII will have no problem beating that number. Just simply because it's Final Fantasy. There was some discussion in a previous thread as to whether FFXIII would beat FFXII considering that many fans and critics are sick of jrpgs now. But I suppose it does make a difference that FFXIII will be the first one on the hd consoles. And the critics have shown to be shamelessly pro-Final Fantasy XII even though they were ripping on the genre since before FFXII. Though even if FFXIII beats FFXII, FFXIII will certainly not reach FFX levels given how much the jrpg fanbase has shrunk.

Now if we are going to talk Americas, then FFXIII doesn't have a chance in hell at #1 rpg sales over there. Oblivion, if you count multi-plat sales, narrowly beat FFX! That is huge. There is a changing of the guard in Americas for sure. Maybe FFXIII will win in Europe/Others but who knows. What we do know is that FFXIII will win worldwide solely because of Japan, which is pretty much like cheating (lol) when you consider how poorly the wrpgs have been selling there.

O RLY? So, that's why FFXII was one of the highest reviewed Final Fantasy games.



"We'll toss the dice however they fall,
And snuggle the girls be they short or tall,
Then follow young Mat whenever he calls,
To dance with Jak o' the Shadows."

Check out MyAnimeList and my Game Collection. Owner of the 5 millionth post.

c03n3nj0 on 15 October 2009

The only thing japan needs to catch up with is sales. Japanese devs still make the best games around, imo.



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Kantor on 15 October 2009

RE5 wasn't panned by critics, it has 86 on Metacritic. It's also sold extremely well. MGS is still the king of stealth games, both in sales and in reviews. GT and Forza may now be more or less equal quality-wise, but in terms of sales, Gran Turismo is FAR ahead.

Devil May Cry isn't good anymore, Final Fantasy has slowly declined in quality (or so I've heard). And Japan is beginning to make shooters, just look at Quantum Theory. It will flop, but that's besides the point. Japanese developers are realising that the Japanese console market is shrinking (for some reason), and they either need to make handheld games or appeal to Western tastes. Which is why Resident Evil, Gran Turismo and MGS sell better than Yakuza and Katamari Damancy.



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jonnhytesta on 15 October 2009
100reaver_x said:
meh i still perfer asian games over western crap anyday

100% agree. im tired of marines torturing or killing people (or monsters .aka not americans or enemies of the empire)

like mass effect, halo, gears of war, fallout,splinter cell,etc)