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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Who is HYPED for Dragon Age ORIGINS? - Game looks AMAZING!

Zucas said:
ZenfoldorVGI said:
 

Hmm, I dunno dude. Calling yourself a gamer and not liking Zelda is pushing it, imo. It's like not being able to create cereal and calling yourself a chef. It's like not being able to pump gas and calling yourself a mechanic, it's like having no voice and calling yourself a singer.

...pushing it.

It's 101. It's why games are good. It is the root of adventure, and the beginning of everything that gaming has become.

It's The Legend of Zelda when Final Fantasy was still Final Fantasy 1.

When gaming was absolute shit, Zelda and Mario were born, and since then, it's been good.

Right?

Don't worry Winston... I'll help you out.  Also for the reason of simply I can't let something like this go untouched.

 

Oh wow this is just a mess.  Well obviously hasty generalization fallacy.  Assuming that because Zelda is a prominent game and that all gamers are required to like it is simply an atrocious way to format an argument.  Well atrocious becuase it isn't logical.  But you could take it further that it's an appeal to tradition fallacy because just because Zelda has been considered a great game and something gamer's enjoy doesn't mean that is to be taken as the truth now. 

But you further the argument by a bad analogy fallacy.  Creating cereal and being a chef has absolutely nothing to do whatsoever with being a gamer and liking Zelda.  Actually the parallels don't even match so fundamentally it doesn't make sense.   Same for the rest of your comparisions.  Analogies have to be sensical meaning they need to relate in a way.  Using diversion tools such as an appeal to "common knowledge" analogy form is not a way to further your argument. 

The whole of your argument stands as "Zelda is a pinnacle of gaming, thus to be in gaming you are required to like Zelda".  It's quite clear to understand why that doesn't work.  And appeal to emotion fallacy and hasty generalization fallacy.  It tries to assert their being a truth in Zelda being a great game and then asserting a truth that is a standard for a gamer, and then be a standard for gaming in general.  Thus it's a composition fallacy as well you move from the parts to the whole.  Just because something is a great game doesn't mean you can assert it as something as great for all gamers or something as great in the entire industry. 

 

I'm a huge Zelda fan so obviously I don't do this out of hate for the series.  I simply do this out of necessity for logic and your argument doesn't posses it in anyway.  I suggest you try to find a fundamental way in asserting Zelda as one of the pinnacle of the gaming industry and then relating that on to how you judge the validity of a gamer.  You'll find really quick there is no logical way of doing that because you even if you can do the first you can't move it to the second.  Gamers aren't determined necessarily by what they like.  If anything determined by how much they play and what they play.  And considering he's played Zelda, your argument would end there. 

It's like saying Big Mama's House 2 is better than The Godfather and calling yourself a movie critic.

I mean, anyone can call themselves whatever they want. I can call myself the president. Doesn't mean I accept it. There are certain conditions that must be met. One of them is not hating the Legend of freakin' Zelda.

That said, everything is subjective. However, that includes my opinion and you ain't changing it by playing word games. When you don't like Zelda, your opinion on gaming goes out the window, imo. When you don't like The Godfather, your opinion on movies goes out the window, imo. You're a game player, sure. You're a movie watcher, sure. But are you a gamer? Are you a critic? Maybe in the loosest sense of the word. Everyone is a critic, everyone who ever picked up a mouse and keyboard is a "gamer."

However, I come from a time when the word "gamer" meant something. IMO, if you hate Zelda, that ain't it.

 

When you don't love Zelda, when you hated Fallout 3, and when you think the GAME Demon Souls is better than the COMPANY Bioware, what the hell am I supposed to think?

Huh?

Speak on that one Zucas.



I don't need your console war.
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor.
You're power hungry, spinnin' stories, and bein' graphics whores.
I don't need your console war.

NO NO, NO NO NO.

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Zenfolder- haha since when is logic considered word games. Of course I'm sure it is to most who simply don't understand it and judging by both posts now it is clear you are about as illogical as they come. Now logically, I don't have to respond to this at all. It is a complete misrepresentation of what I just responded with. But I'll do it anyways because you are just being so stubborn.

Once again fallacy of analogy. Critiquing movies and liking video games has nothing to do with each other nor does the relation of those 2 movies and the relation of the 2 games (Zelda/Fallout 3 and Demon's Soul) have any similar magnitude of range. It's obvious you used an exaggerated example to further your argument but that isn't a logical way of presenting an argument but a purposely deceiving one. Sorry that's a failed premise.

The other big problem comes from your assumptions of knowing what these terms mean and how they are defined. Even if you do state them as your opinion, using them as factual basis to judge others is appeal to emotion fallacy.

But I'm going to stop there because you already made this way to easy for me to breakdown. You should have left your last sentence off because you committed the worst error of all: contradiction. You clearly state "everything is subjective". However, you have also stated that some things aren't subjective and indeed objective such as :

"There are certain conditions that must be met. One of them is not hating the Legend of freakin' Zelda."

This can be further seen in the original post I quoted such as:

"It's 101. It's why games are good. It is the root of adventure, and the beginning of everything that gaming has become."

These aren't subjective statements. Even if you would try to mask it by saying "IMO" as you've done numerous times that is clearly not your argument. Your argument has been clear in stating If you don't like Zelda, then you are not a gamer. Doesn't like Zelda, so therefore not a gamer. This is not a subjective argument. This is not a recognition of everything being subjective. And of course using this to judge others is obviously not subjective. Your argument is clearly stating you know the truth, here's the proof, and why I can use it as a basis for other things.

Well ya know what Zen old buddy, that's a contradiction. The self defeating claim of "everything is subjective" clearly disagrees with previous things you've stated. Something can't both be the case and not the case at the same time in the same respect. Your argument thus, doesn't make sense and trying to agree with it would be affirming the truth of a contradiction, which of course is illogical.

Now I suggest, you stop acting so pompous and recognize that defying logic is not a good course of action. It's not me that is saying your arguments aren't sound, but logic itself. Now I suggest you listen to your self-defeating claim and recognize there are a lot of things that are subjective. And one of those clearly are human perceptions. Trying to therefore set a basis of elitist perceptions is never a good course of action because it logically doesn't make sense. And no YOUR PLAY ON WORDS won't save you from this because I didn't even need to use it. All I needed was a crash course in logic, a little common sense, and someone with a bad argument. That's what I have to say on that one and for the sake of reason itself, let's hope I don't have to say anymore. Well actually, thanks to logic, I don't. Take awhile to think that over.



ZenfoldorVGI said:

However, I come from a time when the word "gamer" meant something. IMO, if you hate Zelda, that ain't it.

When you don't love Zelda, when you hated Fallout 3, and when you think the GAME Demon Souls is better than the COMPANY Bioware, what the hell am I supposed to think?

Huh?

Speak on that one Zucas.

You seem to have issues with actually reading all of my posts. I thought it was pretty that I was just exaggerating due to the extreme exaggeration of Bioware in this thread. Also, never once did I say that I hated Zelda. I just don't like the series and think it's not for me. It's very well made, and I understand the love. I feel the same way about all of the Tom Clancy games. I think they're boring as hell, but I understand that they're not for me and are well made games.

 

And yes, I hate Fallout 3. It's not a very good game in my opinion. Might be the only game where I felt stupid and ripped off after spending $60 on the collector's edition for PC.



"We'll toss the dice however they fall,
And snuggle the girls be they short or tall,
Then follow young Mat whenever he calls,
To dance with Jak o' the Shadows."

Check out MyAnimeList and my Game Collection. Owner of the 5 millionth post.

outlawauron said:
darthdevidem01 said:
@Acevil

lol no problem......I myself was SHOCKEd by how good & cool this Dragon age Origins game looked!

But as you said that outlawauron's going to kill me now!!

Why would I kill you?

I mean, you gave +500 respect to something because I don't like Zelda and thinks everyone is required to love the series. That's just ridiculous.

no I gave +500 respect as he agreed that Final Fantasy > Bioware > EA (Sims & so on > Demon's Souls imo) > Demons souls

Re-Read the post I quoted, the first part of it "granted, sir"

_____

The second part of it had nothing to do with the +500 respect, why would it? I am not a huge zelda fan myself.



All hail the KING, Andrespetmonkey

outlawauron said:

ZenfoldorVGI said:

However, I come from a time when the word "gamer" meant something. IMO, if you hate Zelda, that ain't it.

When you don't love Zelda, when you hated Fallout 3, and when you think the GAME Demon Souls is better than the COMPANY Bioware, what the hell am I supposed to think?

Huh?

Speak on that one Zucas.

You seem to have issues with actually reading all of my posts. I thought it was pretty that I was just exaggerating due to the extreme exaggeration of Bioware in this thread. Also, never once did I say that I hated Zelda. I just don't like the series and think it's not for me. It's very well made, and I understand the love. I feel the same way about all of the Tom Clancy games. I think they're boring as hell, but I understand that they're not for me and are well made games.

 

And yes, I hate Fallout 3. It's not a very good game in my opinion. Might be the only game where I felt stupid and ripped off after spending $60 on the collector's edition for PC.

Ok, so Bioware being great is exaggerated and you aren't really a big fan of Zelda. Also you hated Fallout 3, and you think it's "not a very good game."

I read that much.

Anyway, why care what I think? You already realize your opinions are not only controversial, but there is something else there. How far did you play Fallout 3? Who many Zelda's have you beaten? When did you start gaming?



I don't need your console war.
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor.
You're power hungry, spinnin' stories, and bein' graphics whores.
I don't need your console war.

NO NO, NO NO NO.

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My sig answers the OP's question.  



Currently playing:  PC:  Wolfenstein  PS2:  Final Fantasy X  PS3: All-Pro Football 2K8 Wii:  Force Unleashed  PSP:  God of War: CoO Xbox 360:  Gears of War 2  

Most anticipated game:  Dragon Age Origins (PC)

darthdevidem01 said:
outlawauron said:
darthdevidem01 said:
@Acevil

lol no problem......I myself was SHOCKEd by how good & cool this Dragon age Origins game looked!

But as you said that outlawauron's going to kill me now!!

Why would I kill you?

I mean, you gave +500 respect to something because I don't like Zelda and thinks everyone is required to love the series. That's just ridiculous.

no I gave +500 respect as he agreed that Final Fantasy > Bioware > EA (Sims & so on > Demon's Souls imo) > Demons souls

Re-Read the post I quoted, the first part of it "granted, sir"

_____

The second part of it had nothing to do with the +500 respect, why would it? I am not a huge zelda fan myself.

No, noone is required to love Zelda.

I'm not saying you aren't a gamer, or that your opinion is worthless, or anything of the sort.

I'm saying that in my opinion, people who don't like at least one game in the franchise "The Legend of Zelda" aren't gamers by my definition, and certainly aren't worth listening to on the subject of videogames. If someone can say the Legend of Zelda isn't great, then they can say ANYTHING. They really can say anything. It might as well be completely random. It might as well be one of those 8 ball toys that you shake up.

8 Ball toy, is Zelda great?

"My sources

   say no"

How, in all gods creation, can I trust the opinion of a completely random source?

Loosely, anyone who plays games is a gamer.

I guess I'm just an elitist, if that's how you want to lable me. I don't think I'm elite, but I think you have to earn certain things, and one of them, is respect. You can't earn my respect as a gamer if you dislike Zelda, or however you want to marginalize your dislike of the franchise. "Not a big fan" "Not my favorite game" "Like XXX better" "not really sure about Zelda" whatever.

If you don't like it, you should probably play it more and figure out why.

This belief if compounded by the fact that you out and out hated Fallout 3, which is shocking to say the least, and also apparently think Bioware is overrated and embellished.

Have you ever played Baldur's Gate II?

If Fallout 3, Baldur's Gate II, and The Legend of Zelda aren't good, I'll eat my own shit.

And THAT is what deserves the respect points, sir. Enjoy Demon Souls?

"All signs

 point to

   Yes"



I don't need your console war.
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor.
You're power hungry, spinnin' stories, and bein' graphics whores.
I don't need your console war.

NO NO, NO NO NO.

ZenfoldorVGI said:
outlawauron said:

ZenfoldorVGI said:

However, I come from a time when the word "gamer" meant something. IMO, if you hate Zelda, that ain't it.

When you don't love Zelda, when you hated Fallout 3, and when you think the GAME Demon Souls is better than the COMPANY Bioware, what the hell am I supposed to think?

Huh?

Speak on that one Zucas.

You seem to have issues with actually reading all of my posts. I thought it was pretty that I was just exaggerating due to the extreme exaggeration of Bioware in this thread. Also, never once did I say that I hated Zelda. I just don't like the series and think it's not for me. It's very well made, and I understand the love. I feel the same way about all of the Tom Clancy games. I think they're boring as hell, but I understand that they're not for me and are well made games.

 

And yes, I hate Fallout 3. It's not a very good game in my opinion. Might be the only game where I felt stupid and ripped off after spending $60 on the collector's edition for PC.

Ok, so Bioware being great is exaggerated and you aren't really a big fan of Zelda. Also you hated Fallout 3, and you think it's "not a very good game."

I read that much.

Anyway, why care what I think? You already realize your opinions are not only controversial, but there is something else there. How far did you play Fallout 3? Who many Zelda's have you beaten? When did you start gaming?

It's not so much caring what you think, but as to the reason why you think. That's all.

Also, it's not Bioware being great that's exaggerated but some of the responses in the thread that I thought were kinda funny.

We all have our controversial opinions (can they even be called that), but I'm not out trying to bash anything to hell.

To answer your questions:

I played Fallout 3 for ~15 hours. I just stopped after I felt I was wasting time and could have better spent my time playing things where I knew I would have fun.

I have played every Zelda from Ocarina of Time to Twilight Princess on consoles. I played Phantom Hourglass, but never played Minish Cap, Four Swords, or most of the originals. (I did play the original) I have not beaten everything I've played, but again I'm not saying it's a bad series. I've tried to really get into the series because everyone around me loves it. So, I've tried, but also decided it's not for me.



"We'll toss the dice however they fall,
And snuggle the girls be they short or tall,
Then follow young Mat whenever he calls,
To dance with Jak o' the Shadows."

Check out MyAnimeList and my Game Collection. Owner of the 5 millionth post.

Bioware always makes amazing games



ZenfoldorVGI said:
Loosely, anyone who plays games is a gamer.

I guess I'm just an elitist, if that's how you want to lable me. I don't think I'm elite, but I think you have to earn certain things, and one of them, is respect. You can't earn my respect as a gamer if you dislike Zelda, or however you want to marginalize your dislike of the franchise. "Not a big fan" "Not my favorite game" "Like XXX better" "not really sure about Zelda" whatever.

If you don't like it, you should probably play it more and figure out why.

This belief if compounded by the fact that you out and out hated Fallout 3, which is shocking to say the least, and also apparently think Bioware is overrated and embellished.

Have you ever played Baldur's Gate II?

If Fallout 3, Baldur's Gate II, and The Legend of Zelda aren't good, I'll eat my own shit.

And THAT is what deserves the respect points, sir. Enjoy Demon Souls?

"All signs

 point to

   Yes"

Woah, you edited a lot into this post, or I just missed it.

Yes, I did say I played Baldur's Gate 2 and that I loved it (along with KOTOR 1).

Please don't act like hating Fallout 3 is like some sacred cow. I know I'm certainly not alone in my disliking for the title. And yes, in this thread and on this site, I feel that Bioware is overrated.

Hold it on the eating of the poop. I certainly think Baldur's Gate and Zelda are good games.



"We'll toss the dice however they fall,
And snuggle the girls be they short or tall,
Then follow young Mat whenever he calls,
To dance with Jak o' the Shadows."

Check out MyAnimeList and my Game Collection. Owner of the 5 millionth post.