Akvod said: Ok lets just have a ceasefire then >.< I don't want to strain whatever friendship we had over 1 disagreement >.<

A ceasefire is just that, a ceasefire. It's better to finish and be done with it.
I'm honestly not trying to attack your character here so I'm not trying to be insulting, if I did come off as such, that wasn't my intent.
Rather, from the start, I'm questioning your action of calling them moral fags.

If you read back their conditions which you have to agree to to install their software.
Paraphrasing:
1.Don't distribute the patch with an illegal copy to other people.

2. Don't use the patch to promote, stimulate, encourage people to pirate the game.

3. A request to "Please buy Tsukihime when you can."

Those are very lenient conditions.
So far you haven't even broken one of those conditions.

So I honestly don't see any justification as to why they're Moral fags, pretentious, putting themselves up on a pedestal or having moral superiority. 

You're wondering what would it take to end this disagreement?
It's simple, take that line that that has no justification in the OP, that line that insults the very people that translated the game to english for us, that line that doesn't even add to our discussion about Tsukihime and edit it out.

I know not a lot of people will be going to read it anyway, and I know it's pretty useless in the grander scheme of things, but it all comes down to principle.


So if I ever start insulting people that's not justified I expect you to correct me aswell. ^_^

iclim4 said: Akvod said: Ok lets just have a ceasefire then >.< I don't want to strain whatever friendship we had over 1 disagreement >.< A ceasefire is just that, a ceasefire. It's better to finish and be done with it. I'm honestly not trying to attack your character here so I'm not trying to be insulting, if I did come off as such, that wasn't my intent. Rather, from the start, I'm questioning your action of calling them moral fags. If you read back their conditions which you have to agree to to install their software. Paraphrasing: 1.Don't distribute the patch with an illegal copy to other people. 2. Don't use the patch to promote, stimulate, encourage people to pirate the game. 3. A request to "Please buy Tsukihime when you can." Those are very lenient conditions. So far you haven't even broken one of those conditions. So I honestly don't see any justification as to why they're Moral fags, pretentious, putting themselves up on a pedestal or having moral superiority.  You're wondering what would it take to end this disagreement? It's simple, take that line that that has no justification in the OP, that line that insults the very people that translated the game to english for us, that line that doesn't even add to our discussion about Tsukihime and edit it out. I know not a lot of people will be going to read it anyway, and I know it's pretty useless in the grander scheme of things, but it all comes down to principle. So if I ever start insulting people that's not justified I expect you to correct me aswell. ^_^

Sorry, but I can't agree to that. We have different opinions, and I simply want to leave it at that. If we continue arguing we'll just be repeating the same thing like a broken record. You've only repeated what you previously said, so it obviously won't convince me if you simply repeat it, and me replying with the same reply won't convince you.

That's why I want to stop this >.< I hope it's ok with you that we don't agree.

Akvod said: Sorry, but I can't agree to that. We have different opinions, and I simply want to leave it at that. If we continue arguing we'll just be repeating the same thing like a broken record. You've only repeated what you previously said, so it obviously won't convince me if you simply repeat it, and me replying with the same reply won't convince you. That's why I want to stop this >.< I hope it's ok with you that we don't agree.

Sure it's ok if we disagree but we're not at a roadblock yet.
Admittedly I did repeat much of my post but it's only to move it to a lighter note, to stress out my points and to summarize the conversation.

From what I understand you make it seem like they're telling you forcefully to buy the game along with their patch when in reality they're requesting you to buy the game when you can. They don't actually say to only use their patch on an original copy, but only not to distribute their patch with an illegal copy to other people.
I mean you can actually give pirated copies of Tsukihime and still be in a loophole.

Explain to me again in summary how that makes them moral fags, pretentious, putting themselves up on a pedestal or having moral superiority? Honest question. You can even copy paste key entences from old posts if you want.

iclim4 said: Akvod said: Sorry, but I can't agree to that. We have different opinions, and I simply want to leave it at that. If we continue arguing we'll just be repeating the same thing like a broken record. You've only repeated what you previously said, so it obviously won't convince me if you simply repeat it, and me replying with the same reply won't convince you. That's why I want to stop this >.< I hope it's ok with you that we don't agree. Sure it's ok if we disagree but we're not at a roadblock yet. Admittedly I did repeat much of my post but it's only to move it to a lighter note, to stress out my points and to summarize the conversation. From what I understand you make it seem like they're telling you forcefully to buy the game along with their patch when in reality they're requesting you to buy the game when you can. They don't actually say to only use their patch on an original copy, but only not to distribute their patch with an illegal copy to other people. I mean you can actually give pirated copies of Tsukihime and still be in a loophole. Explain to me again in summary how that makes them moral fags, pretentious, putting themselves up on a pedestal or having moral superiority? Honest question. You can even copy paste key entences from old posts if you want.

Like I said before, it's not the fact that they're telling me to buy a game. That shoud be expected. If you can buy the game, you should. It's the fact that buying the game is impossible in the sense of paying the creators to get their product. And them telling me to do such an action is why I thought it was pretentious and therefore worthy of being a "moral fag" (a pretentious, self righteous preacher).

So in summary:

1. The action they tell us to do is nearly, if not actually, impossible (depending on your interpretation of buying via auction/used satisfies giving the creators their dues or not).

2. Therefore because they tell us to do such an impossible action, I felt that they were being pretentious.

That's it >.< I can't summarize it anymore, and it's what I replied over and over, so I know it won't change your opinion like you couldn't change mine.

Akvod said: Like I said before, it's not the fact that they're telling me to buy a game. That shoud be expected. If you can buy the game, you should. It's the fact that buying the game is impossible in the sense of paying the creators to get their product. And them telling me to do such an action is why I thought it was pretentious and therefore worthy of being a "moral fag" (a pretentious, self righteous preacher). So in summary: 1. The action they tell us to do is nearly, if not actually, impossible (depending on your interpretation of buying via auction/used satisfies giving the creators their dues or not). 2. Therefore because they tell us to do such an impossible action, I felt that they were being pretentious. That's it >.< I can't summarize it anymore, and it's what I replied over and over, so I know it won't change your opinion like you couldn't change mine.

So from what I understand they're pretentious for asking people to buy Tsukihime even though it wouldn't benefit Type-moon?

What I'm saying is basically conjecture since I wasn't following the scene yet at that time but:
Tsukihime is an old game, one that came out around the year 2000.
Tsukihime was later on rereleased as Tsukibako around mid 03. Tsukibako is an enhanced port(new mastered music)/side stories/ sequel.
If I'm not mistaken Mirrormoon was formed around either late 03-04.
It is possible that at that time people were still able to obtain the game through stores.

Now at the present date, and as you know, a Tsukihime remake is in the works.(with the possibility that it might even release this year)
They're asking to please buy Tsukihime when you can. "When" being an indefinite measure of time (with in the boundaries of our lives).
It doesn't really matter if you buy the original or Tsukibako, so it wouldn't really matter if you buy the remake.

The end result is still the same, their translation of the game helped Type-moon make a sale. (of course I can't speak for them, so I'm assuming that's one of the goals they're aiming for, I'm guessing another would be for the enjoyment of their english speaking peers, another would be to convert normal people to otakus and ruin English speaking societies)

iclim4 said: Akvod said: Like I said before, it's not the fact that they're telling me to buy a game. That shoud be expected. If you can buy the game, you should. It's the fact that buying the game is impossible in the sense of paying the creators to get their product. And them telling me to do such an action is why I thought it was pretentious and therefore worthy of being a "moral fag" (a pretentious, self righteous preacher). So in summary: 1. The action they tell us to do is nearly, if not actually, impossible (depending on your interpretation of buying via auction/used satisfies giving the creators their dues or not). 2. Therefore because they tell us to do such an impossible action, I felt that they were being pretentious. That's it >.< I can't summarize it anymore, and it's what I replied over and over, so I know it won't change your opinion like you couldn't change mine. So from what I understand they're pretentious for asking people to buy Tsukihime even though it wouldn't benefit Type-moon? What I'm saying is basically conjecture since I wasn't following the scene yet at that time but: Tsukihime is an old game, one that came out around the year 2000. Tsukihime was later on rereleased as Tsukibako around mid 03. Tsukibako is an enhanced port(new mastered music)/side stories/ sequel. If I'm not mistaken Mirrormoon was formed around either late 03-04. It is possible that at that time people were still able to obtain the game through stores. Now at the present date, and as you know, a Tsukihime remake is in the works.(with the possibility that it might even release this year) They're asking to please buy Tsukihime when you can. "When" being an indefinite measure of time (with in the boundaries of our lives). It doesn't really matter if you buy the original or Tsukibako, so it wouldn't really matter if you buy the remake. The end result is still the same, their translation of the game helped Type-moon make a sale. (of course I can't speak for them, so I'm assuming that's one of the goals they're aiming for, I'm guessing another would be for the enjoyment of their english speaking peers, another would be to convert normal people to otakus and ruin English speaking societies)

I didn't interperted as "When", but "Now". So if it was more humble and saying please buy this when you can, especially with the remake around the corner, I don't think it's pretentious. If they meant "You better have bought this game if you're using our translation, and shame on you if you didn't", then I felt they're being pretentious. So it's not really that we have different opinions about the same thing, but opinions about two whole different things.

Akvod said: I didn't interperted as "When", but "Now". So if it was more humble and saying please buy this when you can, especially with the remake around the corner, I don't think it's pretentious. If they meant "You better have bought this game if you're using our translation, and shame on you if you didn't", then I felt they're being pretentious. So it's not really that we have different opinions about the same thing, but opinions about two whole different things.

I doubt they'd start a "You better have bought this game if you're using our translation, and shame on you if you didn't" mantra with a "Please". Plus their exact words are "Please buy the game when you can", that doesn't sound like "Only use this installer on an original copy."
So I'm assuming it's the latter more humble scenerio.

Their disclaimer(I'm not really sure what it's called), talks nothing about personal use save for that.
The other conditions were simply saying not to distribute the translation along with a pirated copy to other people.

The more I read it the more it seems like they're just covering themselves from legal trouble.

iclim4 said: Akvod said: I didn't interperted as "When", but "Now". So if it was more humble and saying please buy this when you can, especially with the remake around the corner, I don't think it's pretentious. If they meant "You better have bought this game if you're using our translation, and shame on you if you didn't", then I felt they're being pretentious. So it's not really that we have different opinions about the same thing, but opinions about two whole different things. I doubt they'd start a "You better have bought this game if you're using our translation, and shame on you if you didn't" mantra with a "Please". Plus their exact words are "Please buy the game when you can", that doesn't sound like "Only use this installer on an original copy." So I'm assuming it's the latter more humble scenerio. Their disclaimer(I'm not really sure what it's called), talks nothing about personal use save for that. The other conditions were simply saying not to distribute the translation along with a pirated copy to other people. The more I read it the more it seems like they're just covering themselves from legal trouble.

Yeah, that's why I said it was cool since they did it because they got official permission from Type Moon and sounded like that.

Akvod said: Yeah, that's why I said it was cool since they did it because they got official permission from Type Moon and sounded like that.

So if you agree that it was all a misunderstanding on where they stand, why do you still have that "moral fag" line in the OP?

*Starts chanting* "Edit! Edit! Edit!"

iclim4 said: Akvod said: Yeah, that's why I said it was cool since they did it because they got official permission from Type Moon and sounded like that. So if you agree that it was all a misunderstanding on where they stand, why do you still have that "moral fag" line in the OP? *Starts chanting* "Edit! Edit! Edit!"

Because I feel like editing it after the fact seems more like a cover up. I'll rather keep the evidence that I misunderstood then try to act like it never happened.