I understand what you are saying, but to notice how the system works needs abilities too, and some people just lack them. There are also deseases, genetics that come when talking about obessity.

Its kinda like saying people are poor because they are lazy, which clearly isnt true, although there are many cases when it is.

Well Europe is more socialist than the USA, and in general happier (particularly Scandinavia, which is more left than the UK, Italy etc).

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/denmark-is-the-worlds-happiest-country--official-410075.html 

6 of the top 10 are European countries. USA is 23rd, UK 41st. 

No one meant to say that with effort you wont get anything, of course you will, but the point is you will get it in different measures. Also, not because of your case it means anyone in your country can do it, there may have been conditions you had that you could use to get a better life, conditions or oportunities, and not everyone gets the same.

This isnt like saying that if you dont succeed it means you are lazzy or didnt try hard.

Even if you try hard to make it sound like it is, the USA isnt the utopic country everyone wants to live in, I am by no means saying its bad, hell, living standards are way better than my country, but its no where as near as perfect as you talk about it.

You know, you still haven't actually answered his accusation that you are posting a false dilemma.

Also your accusation that Squilliam wants something for nothing is unfounded (I certainly don't want something for nothing, as I will be a professional when I graduate I will in fact be paying more money in taxes than I get back in services - I still want a more socialist system) and telling him to move to Europe and get the hell out of your sight is hardly mature debating. In fact its just borderline flaming.

I would also rather that 100% of the population got good healthcare from the government than that 90% of the population got very good healthcare and 10% of the population got extremely poor healthcare (in fact more than 10% of the population does not have health insurance, but anyway).

As for a socialist country better off than America, try Norway.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Failed_States_Index

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quality-of-Life_Index

It beats America in pretty much every single metric conceived and is quite firmly a social democracy.

A Nordic country? Im pretty sure many of them have higher standards of living and are far to the left of the U.S.

I respect and agree with many of your opinions. However with the good comes the bad, with the ability to organise on a nationwide scale you can get things like basic health care which may never be provided by a free market for everyone and thereby increase the level of health of everyone because everyones included so for things like vaccinations and preventing the spread of infectious deseases its an effective system, but this good comes with the ability to organise death on a massive scale.

Do you even know what our health care is? Its a public/private affair, the government will litterally book in surgery anywhere and doesn't matter whether its a public or private hospital so long as its cost effective and the treatment is good. The government here will literally fly people to Australia if its worth it or required.

I wouldn't want someone held back who simply wants to pin his ears back and go for opportunity, I also want opportunity available to anyone. I don't want a society where your chances of landing a high paying job are as much dependant on to whom you were born to and the circumstances therein, which is why I support state funding for high quality education for everyone. State funding but like with health care I personally prefer people have the choice to go private and get the same level of funding as from public schools.

What if you were born poor, a minority with cystic fibrosis? In that case in your country you may not have access to the medical care that would even give you a shot at a productive life. The typical person does not wish to be handed a golden spoon at birth from the state and expect to be fed from it for the rest of their lives.

100% of Americans have healthcare, it's just only 90% have health insurance. Of the ones that don't have insurance, 50% of them are under the age of 30, with 70% of them working full time. So, for a lot of the 10% that don't have insurance, it's by choice.

And I would rather have more that I can earn, then anything given to me. If I lived under Norway's system, I would not have the ability to have the life I have here.

Oh, and I was not telling Squill to get out of my sight, it was directed to "random American who wants something for nothing".

You only asked for a socialist country where the people were better off than America. Norway is clearly a country where the people are better off.

Where do you get that from? If it's just directed towards squilliam, I can't judge that, but if it's directed towards the rest of the world it's purely ignorance.

My mum is 66, has diabetes and is at this very moment in the hospital after a dangerous spinal channel operation. She has socialized health care and an extra insurance that takes over all hospital costs and ensures here a single room (the costs would normally be like 10€ per day).

She could choose the doctor she wanted and went to the best one. Guess how much she pays (apart from her monthly premiums) for insulin, the operations, the treatment and her stay in the first class hospital? NOTHING.

As I stated before, the doctor is a specialist, a guy, people from Saudi Arabia and other countries fly in for and still she gets this very doctor with socialized healt care. So the knowledge, the methods, the machines and everything around that is state of the art and still with your statement this can't be the case, because it's not the USA.

While I always enjoy, when you bring up new topics, you start to show some really big ignorance. And this specific ignorance you showed here is de facto why many people think many US-citizens are stupid AND why you feel your country is not doing good any more. Yes, the USA is a great country, but no it's not the greatest country in the world by all means. Try to get that into your mind.

I could argue about the rest of your post, but I just want to make clear, that the bolded one is just unacceptable.

I am not saying there is not good healthcare around the world. I am just saying the best is in the US. I posted a list of the top 20 hospitals somewhere on this site, and something link 16 of them (with the top 8) were from the US.

There is no place in the world where you can get better healthcare, then John Hopkins. 

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/the_johns_hopkins_hospital/index.html

The second best place in the world for medical care, is the Mayo Clinic.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/rochester/

Unless you live in the US (or are willing to fly here), you can't get care at this level. I live 2 hours from the Mayo. Any American who wants to live close to these hospitals (or any of the other top 8), can do so.

I am glad your mother is getting great treatment. I am sure many outside the US do. But if your mother had an ultra rare blood disorder, cancer or needed a new heart, here chances of living are better at these two locations, then anywhere else in the world.

So with these things available to me, and all Americans, how is that bolded statement not true, let alone unacceptable?

This is a good point as this could be a very highly polarized thread. 

Left wing policies, right wing policies, socialism, capitalism.  I feel like I'm back in poli sci class...

Anyways just my 2 cents on this topic, each system has its merit, and each system has its drawbacks.  To classify that all "evil" countries have been left or social is quite contrary to history.  There have been many atrocities committed by the US to its own people (slavery/aboriginal issues/internment camps) and to others abroad (Middle East/Vietnam/etc) due to its foreign policy.  So I wouldn't say that all evil countries have been "left", but I also wouldnt say that the US is evil, nor is socialism or capitalism.  The term "Evil" is subjective anyways.

However, with that said, its interesting to note that there might be a correlation to an easier abuse of the socialistic systems by some "evil" people (Stalin/Hitler). 

Isn't it odd though, that Hitler considered himself anti-communistic at the same time targeting the Jewish people, many of them business oriented capitalistic?

BTW... On the debate of healthcare systems... the US isn't even close to being considered the greatest.  Its a good system, but definitely not the greatest.  The key here is affordable health insurance and thats what a lot of other countries have that the US doesn't (Sweden/Australia/Canada)