Squilliam said: ^ You presented the same evidence back when Forza 2 was released. Why don't you update your evidence, think for yourself and stop acting like a sophisticateds AI program. I can see through your disguise, Milo is a better AI than you!!!!!

 

Yeah, MikeB has been crying wolf about the 360 being maxed since 2007.

Honestly, Three Dog on my pipboy3000 appears more alive than him... at least he changes his tune from time to time.

Bitmap Frogs said: Squilliam said: ^ You presented the same evidence back when Forza 2 was released. Why don't you update your evidence, think for yourself and stop acting like a sophisticateds AI program. I can see through your disguise, Milo is a better AI than you!!!!!   Yeah, MikeB has been crying wolf about the 360 being maxed since 2007. Honestly, Three Dog on my pipboy3000 appears more alive than him... at least he changes his tune from time to time.

In 2007 I talked about Gears of War and how I didn't believe Epic Games claims of maxing out the 360 hardware, I was sceptical. I did however state I thought there was less headroom for the XBox 360 to achieve major technical improvements compared to the PS3 and I stated I expected a Gears of War 2 to use the vast bulk of remaining resources. This is however something else and IMO you should quote me instead of making things up, like you do.

@ Bitmap Frogs

In addition I stated in 2007 I thought the work Epic and Sony did on the Unreal Engine regarding UT3 on the PS3 would translate into technical improvements for the engine on the 360 as well.

How can it be people like you are nearly always wrong regarding my past statements?

LOOOOOL

MikeB said: @ Bitmap Frogs In addition I stated in 2007 I thought the work Epic and Sony did on the Unreal Engine regarding UT3 on the PS3 would translate into technical improvements for the engine on the 360 as well. How can it be people like you are nearly always wrong regarding my past statements?

Because of your sig maybe? I don't know. I don't know what you claimed or did not claim, but most developers simply prefer the Xbox 360 because they don't have to work too much to put out something decent. It does not mean it is not able to keep up with the PS3's potential. On the PS3 you're forced to put effort to make it decent, and since for 3rd party devs there's usually no point in doing that (because it costs them more manpower, more time and therefore more money while the PS3 game sales are usually lower..), PS3 multiplat games are often worse or almost equal to the X360 and very (and I mean VERY) rarely better, even when the PS3 is the lead platform. Or, the games come out a year later...

For 1st party, it's obvious Sony has more resources than Microsoft, and therefore it is easy to claim "we saw the PS3 improve more and therefore it has more potential", but one can not know that because it's simply speculation and biased, because that argument is based on Sony's resources now, and less on the potential of PS3. So that is actually claiming Sony has more potential than Microsoft for 1st party titles, which is true, but not directly true for the consoles themselves. Until we see more actual 1st party games from the X360 with dedicated engines and watch the improvements over different games, OR wait till the end of the life cycles of both the X360 and the pS3, then we can claim which one had the most potential. 

Case closed.

EA says a lot of stupid stuff.. Maybe this year there madden will be better then
lats years lol

@ NightAntilli

I selected a few simple and concrete developer quotes, which are in line with my past statements (long before those statements were outed by those devs).

1) The PS3 being more powerful, 2) Huge gains are to be expected while we push forward, 3) Multi-platform 360 games will usually hold back the PS3's true potential.



Something decent should be easily achieved as cross platform dev tools are mature enough at this stage.



Apart from a few early games, I would say such games in the bulk of cases are as good as equal.

I have criticized early quick & dirty porting efforts as well (even those weren't horrible and usually well enjoyable if a good game to begin with), but I have also provided reasoning why I already expected this years before the PS3 actually launched.

I don't see a reason why people would make things up all of the time and often it are the same people who I argued with in the past, so they should know better with regard to what I actually stated.

As good as equal isn't equal though is MikeB, if it was in reverse the scenario you would be lavishing criticism on the 360 for not being as good. Don't pretend this would not be the case.

The 360 has never had few titles developed for it from scratch with a custom built engine that is tailored to its hardware. The fact of the matter is that all the games that you and many others state prove the PS3 is better graphically than the 360, all use custom built engines and rather blatantly the developers use many tricks and workarounds to get the best out of the hardware. It's like comparing a developer capable of excelling at assembly language on the PS2 to another purely using the original dev kit. It's blatant which will appear the better graphically even with the same hardware in that case.

Forza 3 is probably the only real exclusive title coming out in the near future that has been scratch built for the 360 and had serious time put into it. If that cannot compare with GT5 then I'd consider the PS3 marginally better.

slowmo said: The 360 has never had few titles developed for it from scratch with a custom built engine that is tailored to its hardware. The fact of the matter is that all the games that you and many others state prove the PS3 is better graphically than the 360, all use custom built engines and rather blatantly the developers use many tricks and workarounds to get the best out of the hardware. It's like comparing a developer capable of excelling at assembly language on the PS2 to another purely using the original dev kit. It's blatant which will appear the better graphically even with the same hardware in that case.

You're right, they'll use all sorts of tricks but console development is all about (at least it used to be) optimising a game and gearing it to the hardware. I find as a lot of PC developers have gotten into console development they're not as good at optimising for the hardware available, as they've previously had an ever increasing pool of RAM, CPU & GPU power. Of course in multiplats this is even worse, but is more understandable. I mean Team Ico managed to get HDR lighting (fake) to work on the PS2! It may have been faked, but the effect on screen was the same.

Having said that weren't Halo 3 and Fable 2 using custom engines? It seems odd, as Forza 3 has shown, the 360 does have more potential still available.

@ slowmo

Prove it! And I did not state one is better than the other (just a general comment with in one case the 360 version being a tiny bit better and another case the PS3 version being a bit better). But you will have to run them side by side to really notice, for me that's about equal.

What I did say however is that I don't expect PS3/360 to differ so much now and in the future regarding cross platform titles, for as long as the 360 remains on the market. IMO differences will be minor. It's the exclusives which will show off the PS3 hardware advantage.

This wasn't much different from the Amiga, for example Ocean's cross platform Atari ST/Amiga games were all nearly identical even well after exclusives on the Amiga really showed off its capabilities.