I only have your words to go by, and your credibility isn't that high.

So Sunshine is harder than Galaxy, Retro Studios is not an internal Nintendo developer, Twilight Princess doesn't count because it started before this generation (as opposed the other games, which Nintendo didn't start working on until September 2006...)and the reviewers are lying about Punch-Out!!

Don't forget to point out that Brawl is crappier than Mellee in every way, Mario Kart Wii is a dumbed down version of Double-Dash, Fire Emblem has new casual-friendly features, Wario Land something something, Super Paper Mario has too much talking, Super Sluggers can be played with just the Wiimote, WarioWare was so much better on the other systems,  Captain Rainbow has too many colors to be anything but casual, Disaster doesn't count because it's second-party, Excite Truck+Another Code+Fatal Frame+Excitebots+Batallion Wars+Marble Mania etc. are all third-party developed.

Am I missing anything? Anyhow, stupid Nintendo, always selling us hardcore gamers out, especially after all our loyalty to the cause. I remember the glory days of the Gamecube, when we didn't get easy, cartoony games like Wind Waker and Double-Dash and a new Mario Party each year and Kirby's Air Ride and...

Y'know, I think the reason you keep getting banned isn't because you're an inflammatory troll, but because the mods just like looking at/near your avatar and seeing the words "banned" (for the record, you can count me in that club).

I suggest that you replace your current avatar with one that's just the words "Banned" in big red letters, just to test my theory.

Why would you hate ''casual games''(I prefer: ''expanded audience games'', but let's keep it easy)? They're not hurting you. Don't come saying: ''without them Nintendo would only make core games'', because without them, Nintendo wouldn't be making that many games at all.
Many people are enjoying those games, and it is good that you aren't mocking them, but why would you HATE them? You could also say you just don't like to play them, or that they aren't made for you. And maybe, just maybe some ''casual games'' actually are kind of fun! Try some, on DS for example.

I only listed a few games because it was enough.  You told me not to try to deny that all Nintendo games were dumbed down/casualized.  I only needed to list one game to prove you wrong.  I thought I'd be nice and list a few in case you tried to argue.  I didn't expect you to have separate arguments for each one.  That was hilarious.

I've played the new Punch-Out!!.  The controls are exactly the same as the old ones.  I don't think beating Mike Tyson was already casual in the 80's.  Or does cel-shading make it casual or something?  Reviewers who've played the original are getting their ass kicked by Glass Joe.  And the challenges are as insane as the Mega Man 9 challenges.

There is nothing wrong with casual games and in fact, some of them are QUITE FUN. In fact, that Toy Story Mania game for the Wii actually looks pretty fun. I loved the ride at California Adventure and buying the game sure beats waiting 1 hr in line for the ride. Many people enjoy casual games and there is nothing wrong with that. When I have a whole bunch of friends over, I'm not going to whip out a 20 hr co-op game to play, I'm going to whip out the games that don't take long to play, and are short and fun.

And at the OP, when playing with older folk, it's a lot more fun playing short simple games then longer complicated ones that make them frustrated and drain the fun out of playing them.

I don't hate casual games per say, they just don't give me anything at all. Same as with music and quiz games, I can't bring myself to enjoy them.

People are free to like/dislike whatever type of game they want.

However, they should realize that the free market is at work and whatever likes/dislikes most people/purchasers have is what is going to be made.

Mike from Morgantown

I don't hate casual games but I really hate that people aren't buying "real" games on the Wii and DS so all that is getting developed are these Gardening Mama type games..

That's the fault of the publishers and retailers.

Publishers put the same, or lower, marketing budget into their "core" market games as they do their expanded audience game.  There was also the ME-TOO rush.   Once publishers say a few early Wii titles find success with the expanded market, they all jumped aboard ASAP.

As for retailers, they are limited by retail shelf space thanks to 9 or so gaming platforms on the market plus used games and they tend to buy stock according to certain expected trends.  Look what happened to CoD: WaW on Wii.   They barely carried the game upon launch and only after Activision buged the snot out of them did they bump their stock levels up and guess what...sales went up.  Imagine that.

 Don't worry, as soon as someone discovers the new gold, the birdmen will switch over to that. Look at the DS: first only minigames, now it's RPG's. I hope such a thing happens to the Wii soon.