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Forums - General Discussion - I am a liberal and I'm proud

TheRealMafoo on 07 April 2009
SciFiBoy said:
TheRealMafoo said:

I was poor, and now I am not. I got here by taking advantage of my rights, not by just taking. 

Wrong, you are LUCKY enough that people are willing to pay you enough that you can afford private healthcare and educatio

 

If you think I got here with luck, you will never amount to anything. Sorry if that's harsh.

No, I got here because I worked my way though school. I bussed tables, and then waited tables for 35-40 hours a week while I went to school full time.

I paid for everything as I went. Never took out a student loan. I lived in a shitty studio apartment so I could have enough money for book, tuition, and food.

I would agree it was luck if you took everyone who was as motivated and hardworking as I was and only some of them were successful.

I would bet that the number of people who did what I did and and can afford to not be a burden on society, would be close to 100% (with most probably making more then me).

no, it's not luck at all. It's dedication, and living in a country that affords me the rights I need to succeed.

P.S. You still didn't answer the question.



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SciFiBoy on 07 April 2009
donathos said:
SciFiBoy said:
TheRealMafoo said:
SciFiBoy said:

so, poor people should be denied basic rights because rich people are greedy and wont give them any help?

you give up some of your income (a more than fair amount if you live in the UK or US, id argue that the rich in both nations are awfully undertaxed) in order to give thoose less fortunate than you the same rights you enjoy, like education or healthcare.

No, poor people, thanks to having the same rights as rich people, have the opportunity to earn an income that affords them a better standard of living. the average wage in the UK is 22k a year, no wear near enough to pay for private healthcare and education

Of course in your world there would be no rich people to pay for the poor, as you think no one should make more then 100k, so why are you arguing with me? humanitys ultimate goal should be Utopia imo, see: Earth in Star Trek

I was poor, and now I am not. I got here by taking advantage of my rights, not by just taking. Wrong, you are LUCKY enough that people are willing to pay you enough that you can afford private healthcare and education

 

I understand wanting the world to be a perfect place--Utopia.  I'd like that, too.

However, I think we have to be very careful when it comes to achieving it by taking people's rights away and/or making them do the things you think they should do. im not taking there rights, im taking there spare/extra money, seems fair to me, if you read my posts, you know that im against taking most other rights away

It seems to me, according to my limited knowledge of history, that people have tried this a few times now, and it hasn't quite worked out like we've wanted... read what i wrote above, it has not been done before, at least not in the way im suggesting, also, the fact it hasnt worked before does not garuntee that it wont work in the future, look at science, the first time we try and cure a disease, we often fail, but we refine our work and try again till we get it right.

 

 

 



SciFiBoy on 07 April 2009
Rath said:
The_vagabond7 said:
SciFiBoy said:

so, poor people should be denied basic rights because rich people are greedy and wont give them any help?

you give up some of your income (a more than fair amount if you live in the UK or US, id argue that the rich in both nations are awfully undertaxed) in order to give thoose less fortunate than you the same rights you enjoy, like education or healthcare.

 

That's not really a response to his question. You may think he should be more charitable, but that wasn't what he asked. How is the government taking something from him, and giving it to some one else not an infringement of his rights? Not "Should ethically he be more willing to help more people get an education" or "Does taking it from him and giving it to some one else for an education better for the country as a whole", those aren't topics he was discussing.

I would say that it is an infringment of his financial rights, however its one thats needed in order for others to not have their rights infringed.  i agree

I consider that in the modern world everybody has a right to education, healthcare and the necessities of life. In order for that to happen taxes are necessary.  i agree

Its impossible to live in a Utopian world where no rights of anybody are infringed, its the governments job to get as close as possible. i agree, in so much as Utopia is not currently possible, but if someday we no longer have financial gain as our driving force, then that will change, like i said Star Trek

 

 

 



SciFiBoy on 07 April 2009
TheRealMafoo said:
SciFiBoy said:
TheRealMafoo said:

I was poor, and now I am not. I got here by taking advantage of my rights, not by just taking. 

Wrong, you are LUCKY enough that people are willing to pay you enough that you can afford private healthcare and educatio

 

If you think I got here with luck, you will never amount to anything. Sorry if that's harsh

No, I got here because I worked my way though school. I bussed tables, and then waited tables for 35-40 hours a week while I went to school full time.

I paid for everything as I went. Never took out a student loan. I lived in a shitty studio apartment so I could have enough money for book, tuition, and food.

I would agree it was luck if you took everyone who was as motivated and hardworking as I was and only some of them were successful.

I would bet that the number of people who did what I did and and can afford to not be a burden on society, would be close to 100% (with most probably making more then me).

no, it's not luck at all. It's dedication, and living in a country that affords me the rights I need to succeed.

P.S. You still didn't answer the question.

so, according to you, anyone from a poor family or with a learning disability or whatever dosent deserve the same rights as you, youre also saying that people who do what you did but want to work in a career that pays less than the amount needed to get private healthcare and education, btw, we need people to do jobs that pay less, otherwise there would be no economy.

 



TheRealMafoo on 07 April 2009
SciFiBoy said:
TheRealMafoo said:
SciFiBoy said:
TheRealMafoo said:

I was poor, and now I am not. I got here by taking advantage of my rights, not by just taking.

Wrong, you are LUCKY enough that people are willing to pay you enough that you can afford private healthcare and educatio

 

If you think I got here with luck, you will never amount to anything. Sorry if that's harsh

No, I got here because I worked my way though school. I bussed tables, and then waited tables for 35-40 hours a week while I went to school full time.

I paid for everything as I went. Never took out a student loan. I lived in a shitty studio apartment so I could have enough money for book, tuition, and food.

I would agree it was luck if you took everyone who was as motivated and hardworking as I was and only some of them were successful.

I would bet that the number of people who did what I did and and can afford to not be a burden on society, would be close to 100% (with most probably making more then me).

no, it's not luck at all. It's dedication, and living in a country that affords me the rights I need to succeed.

P.S. You still didn't answer the question.

so, according to you, anyone from a poor family or with a learning disability or whatever dosent deserve the same rights as you, youre also saying that people who do what you did but want to work in a career that pays less than the amount needed to get private healthcare and education, btw, we need people to do jobs that pay less, otherwise there would be no economy.

 

 

Disability is an entirely different issue (although anyone who reads my posts a lot, can tell I have one, and I never let that stop me).

I came from a poor family. Why is that hard for you to understand? I said everyone deserves the same rights. Why is that hard for you to understand?

The difference, is I don't think education and health insurance is a right. I am for educating everyone in this country, but before it was the job of the federal government, it was being done better and cheeper.

It's not the governments job to raise and care for its citizens, it's only the governments job to protect its citizens.

caring for you, is your job.



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SciFiBoy on 07 April 2009

Healthcare and Education are rights imo, i will never think otherwise, as i have empathy for the less fortunate in society



MontanaHatchet on 07 April 2009

I'm a liberal as well and proud of-

Oh holy shit never mind, a huge debate. There's no such thing as having fun in political threads.



 

 

Strategyking92 on 07 April 2009
SciFiBoy said:
Healthcare and Education are rights imo, i will never think otherwise, as i have empathy for the less fortunate in society

 

They are rights, huh? Tell that to the people of bangladesh. They are just now making progress on those "rights". It's a  privilege, because if your country wasn't as good as it was, you might not have those things. Just like technology, it's a privilege.



And that's the only thing I need is *this*. I don't need this or this. Just this PS4... And this gaming PC. - The PS4 and the Gaming PC and that's all I need... And this Xbox 360. - The PS4, the Gaming PC, and the Xbox 360, and that's all I need... And these PS3's. - The PS4, and these PS3's, and the Gaming PC, and the Xbox 360... And this Nintendo DS. - The PS4, this Xbox 360, and the Gaming PC, and the PS3's, and that's all *I* need. And that's *all* I need too. I don't need one other thing, not one... I need this. - The Gaming PC and PS4, and Xbox 360, and thePS3's . Well what are you looking at? What do you think I'm some kind of a jerk or something! - And this. That's all I need.

Obligatory dick measuring Gaming Laptop Specs: Sager NP8270-GTX: 17.3" FULL HD (1920X1080) LED Matte LC, nVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M, Intel Core i7-4700MQ, 16GB (2x8GB) DDR3, 750GB SATA II 3GB/s 7,200 RPM Hard Drive

SciFiBoy on 07 April 2009
Strategyking92 said:
SciFiBoy said:
Healthcare and Education are rights imo, i will never think otherwise, as i have empathy for the less fortunate in society

 

They are rights, huh? Tell that to the people of bangladesh. They are just now making progress on those "rights". It's a  privilege, because if your country wasn't as good as it was, you might not have those things. Just like technology, it's a privilege.

 

Because they are Rights we should help make sure people in other nations have them too



Rath on 07 April 2009
Strategyking92 said:
SciFiBoy said:
Healthcare and Education are rights imo, i will never think otherwise, as i have empathy for the less fortunate in society

 

They are rights, huh? Tell that to the people of bangladesh. They are just now making progress on those "rights". It's a  privilege, because if your country wasn't as good as it was, you might not have those things. Just like technology, it's a privilege.

You're trying to argue that because not everybody has them then they can't be rights?

That doesn't make sense because not everybody has free speech, the ability to move freely or many of the other things that are considered to be rights. Just because we're privileged to have them doesn't stop them being rights and we should try as hard as we can to ensure everybody has the same rights that we do.