Fable 2

Everyother game you fight some big bad guy youv been chasing thru out the series/game and you kill him in a epic way,when those types of games become the new standard whats the new epic?

Twesterm, the best games have barely got close to the most average books or films.  That's just a fact.

As for why, well, there's a few major obstacles

1) first and foremost most games (perhaps rightly) put the gameplay over narrative and meaning.  Look at the comments from the Epic camp around Gears 2 for example - they made it clear that while they were going to try and add more story they wouldn't for a second try and bend the gameplay to fit the narrative; any bending would have to go the other way

2) right now most games are simply copying existing approaches from books and films, and often not to well at that.

3) the killer point for me - talent.  I have no doubt many people involved in making games are talented, but clearly few are talented in quite the same way as the best scriptwriters, novelists, poets, etc. - i.e. they understand code, they understand gameplay (hopefully) but they no more understand narrative and themes than anyone else who reads books or watches films.  Even studios with in-house writers (like Valve) don't exactly have Shakespeare sitting at a desk working for them (sorry Mr Laidlaw, you do a good job overall!)

Could a videogame rival a truly excellent book or film?  Perhaps, but right now the answer on current examples is no, not really.  I accept you might get a connection to the characters, particularly in an RGP where you build them up over time - but in all honesty isn't that connection a lot closer to a favourite Tops Card or a toy you've invested a lot of time in, or a favourite comic book character vs the emotional connection of the best books and films?  I think so for the most part.

Fable 2 had some nice moments, although overall the best 4 games I can think of with interesting themes and emotional depth are Ico, Shadow of the Colossus, Grim Fandango and Silent Hill 2.  I'm sure there are more.  Deus Ex also showed a promise, but they messed up the franchise something awful with Invisible War.

I don't think the citizens marching on Parliament was a particularly good scene - leastways, not compared to the way it worked in the book.

Regardless, I can think of a few that affected me more than the ening of Rita Hayworth and the Shawshank Redemption (that's right, Different Seasons for me)... if you're interested in trying it out, look into the games by Fumito Ueda and Shigesato Itoi.

MGS4 FTW

I can't wait to play MGS4. I Think i'm gonna buy a ps3 just for that game...

1. Not all games, not all games at all.  Hell, FFVI is my favorite game of all time and that game has shitty gameplay.  Just because Epic says so doesn't mean it is.
2. Games are still a young media, do you think the greatest masterpieces were written within the first 30 years of print?  What about movies?  It takes time for the truly great masterpieces to come into being.
3. There are some very talented people but lets put that aside.  Lets say you pick one truly talented person from film or books and they work on a game.  Would that game autamitcally be worse than everything else?

And yes, that connection I have to characters in games is greater than a Tops card.  What the fuck games have you been playing to even ask something like that?  Do you think every video game story and character are as "deep" as the ones in Gears of War?  I mean really, the fact you even make that statement shows that you know nothing.

I'm tempted to stop typing here because that was just a giant piece of fail but I like to hear myself talk and I can imagine I'm talking as I'm typing this so I will go on.

And again, I ask what stops games from ever being as good as books or film?  What do they lack that the other two have?  You can still just as strong as narrative and characters in a game and there's no reason at all you can't.

Also, lets look at this from the other side.  Take FFVI for example, the story in that game is basic.  Nothing special.  THe thing that makes that game good is the character interaction, character development, and just becoming attached to those characters from play.  Would you get that same connection from a book?  Sure, you could have the same exact interaction in the games scripted sequences, but it's different in that you're not responsible for their actions.

Or what about something like Bioshock?  One of the truly amazing things about Bioshock is the story and inhabitants of the city get uncovered as you explore.  The more you explore, the more you know.  If you don't want to explore, you don't get exposed to everything.  It's because of your actions that you find the story.  Can a book or movie do that?

So yeah, games can be just as powerful as books and movies and there's no reason to say otherwise.

I think the best I've seen so far is Final Fantasy X.

Don't think I can choose one, but some of the best endings I've seen are:
Terranigma (just amazing, first time I cried playing a videogame)
Chrono Cross has an awsome ending if you get the right one.

I've seen some good ones but I gotta say MGS4, I was glued to the screen the entire game. EPICNESS - Too many to choose.

I have. Many of us have.  Stop playing Pac-Man for a while , and try something with some depth.  Shawshank and V are both classics, but so is the ending of FFVII:CC and the scene in FF7 when Aeris dies. That was more emotional than just staring at a movie screen. The sole purpose of most movies is to entertain - the story often takes a back seat to explosions and other special effects.  That's why I always like the book better.

BTW: best scene in V is the look Portman under the bed as they drag away her friend. incredible.