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Reasonable said:
twesterm said:
TruckOSaurus said:
twesterm said:
TruckOSaurus said:
twesterm said:
TruckOSaurus said:

While I agree with the games you listed, I would never say games are a better platform for storytelling than movies. The sole purpose of a movie is to tell you a story while a game has to focus on other things which makes it impossible to be as involving as a movie.

 

You can become just as ingrossed in characters in games as you can a book or movie. You can even become more attached to a game character since you're the one controlling it.

I've yet to encounter a game that made me feel the way I felt when I saw Andy Dufresne's escape in Shawshank's Redemption or when you see the citizens marching on Parliament in V for Vendetta.

 

 

So because a game is not as good as some of the best books out there they can't be better than any book?

Okay, I see where you're going with this. Sure a game can be better a than a so-so book or even better than a good-but-not-stellar book but if we're talking about what mediums are best at telling a story, I think movies and books have the upper hand.

I'm not saying that it's impossible for video games to achieve the greatness of some of the best books and movies but as of now they are very far from reaching that point. But video games are relatively young compared to movies and books so maybe they'll get there one day.

 

So why do you think games can't tell as good as a story as books or movies? They have access to everything both of those have.

Going back to Fable II, that ending touched me much more than many books have just because of how it was done and the things I did and didn't do.

If I look at something like Final Fantasy VI, I was very attached to those characters by the end of the game and had a connection to each of them because of the strong character development.

 

Twesterm, the best games have barely got close to the most average books or films.  That's just a fact.

 

As for why, well, there's a few major obstacles

 

1) first and foremost most games (perhaps rightly) put the gameplay over narrative and meaning.  Look at the comments from the Epic camp around Gears 2 for example - they made it clear that while they were going to try and add more story they wouldn't for a second try and bend the gameplay to fit the narrative; any bending would have to go the other way

 

2) right now most games are simply copying existing approaches from books and films, and often not to well at that.

 

3) the killer point for me - talent.  I have no doubt many people involved in making games are talented, but clearly few are talented in quite the same way as the best scriptwriters, novelists, poets, etc. - i.e. they understand code, they understand gameplay (hopefully) but they no more understand narrative and themes than anyone else who reads books or watches films.  Even studios with in-house writers (like Valve) don't exactly have Shakespeare sitting at a desk working for them (sorry Mr Laidlaw, you do a good job overall!)

 

Could a videogame rival a truly excellent book or film?  Perhaps, but right now the answer on current examples is no, not really.  I accept you might get a connection to the characters, particularly in an RGP where you build them up over time - but in all honesty isn't that connection a lot closer to a favourite Tops Card or a toy you've invested a lot of time in, or a favourite comic book character vs the emotional connection of the best books and films?  I think so for the most part.

Fable 2 had some nice moments, although overall the best 4 games I can think of with interesting themes and emotional depth are Ico, Shadow of the Colossus, Grim Fandango and Silent Hill 2.  I'm sure there are more.  Deus Ex also showed a promise, but they messed up the franchise something awful with Invisible War.

 

 

  1. Not all games, not all games at all.  Hell, FFVI is my favorite game of all time and that game has shitty gameplay.  Just because Epic says so doesn't mean it is.
  2. Games are still a young media, do you think the greatest masterpieces were written within the first 30 years of print?  What about movies?  It takes time for the truly great masterpieces to come into being.
  3. There are some very talented people but lets put that aside.  Lets say you pick one truly talented person from film or books and they work on a game.  Would that game autamitcally be worse than everything else?

And yes, that connection I have to characters in games is greater than a Tops card.  What the fuck games have you been playing to even ask something like that?  Do you think every video game story and character are as "deep" as the ones in Gears of War?  I mean really, the fact you even make that statement shows that you know nothing.

I'm tempted to stop typing here because that was just a giant piece of fail but I like to hear myself talk and I can imagine I'm talking as I'm typing this so I will go on.

And again, I ask what stops games from ever being as good as books or film?  What do they lack that the other two have?  You can still just as strong as narrative and characters in a game and there's no reason at all you can't.

Also, lets look at this from the other side.  Take FFVI for example, the story in that game is basic.  Nothing special.  THe thing that makes that game good is the character interaction, character development, and just becoming attached to those characters from play.  Would you get that same connection from a book?  Sure, you could have the same exact interaction in the games scripted sequences, but it's different in that you're not responsible for their actions.

Or what about something like Bioshock?  One of the truly amazing things about Bioshock is the story and inhabitants of the city get uncovered as you explore.  The more you explore, the more you know.  If you don't want to explore, you don't get exposed to everything.  It's because of your actions that you find the story.  Can a book or movie do that?

So yeah, games can be just as powerful as books and movies and there's no reason to say otherwise.