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Forums - Sales Discussion - How would you define a flop?

We often see on this site threads about how a game is a flop, then goes an endless thread of "yes it is. no it isn't".

So when, for you, is a game a flop?

 

When it doesn't reach the 1M mark?

When it doesn't sell more than 1/20th of the system owner base?

When the devs don't get their money back?

When it doesn't reach expectations?

When it does sell less than the average of its genre?

 

I think you get the idea behind my question now...



They will know Helgan belongs to Helghasts

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I think it's more of a combination of everything you just listed.



Not a 360 fanboy, just a PS3 fanboy hater that likes putting them in their place ^.^

For me flop is relative to the game and how well it achieves certain metrics versus reasonable expectations for its sales/critical/market reception

So for example I'd judge something like Flower very differently from Killzone 2 and wouldn't use the same measurement all the time (i.e. 1M sales to be a hit).

I think the true flops tend to be obvious - titles that looked promising, review poorly, get poor online notices, sell poorly vs similar titles and general stink up the gaming universe.

I do notice that since the 360/PS3 fight started (and Wii went in a different direction) lots of people are falling over to claim 'flop' with the most tenuous of justification.

So if it makes money, reviews okay and finds an audience its not a flop IMHO.



Try to be reasonable... its easier than you think...

For most people, it's when a game for a system they hate doesn't sell 500,000 on the first day.

 

Personally I have no metric, as long as I can actually buy the thing in my region.



WHERE IS MY KORORINPA 3

Well... I don't think expectations matter much.

I think more of the devs... and also if it sells at least as much as other similar games.

Other points aren't really relevant for me.

Some things that could matter would be if it's a new IP or not... and how much the other iterations sold...



They will know Helgan belongs to Helghasts

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When a game doesn't reach the developer/publisher's expected sales. Any other metric is too subjective to be reliable.



When it doesn't reach the publisher's expectations.



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957

I too think the standard for a "flop" is fluid.

Certainly if a game does not at least "break even," it can be considered a flop by the company -- unless of course the idea was to introduce a new IP at a loss to begin a series of games that would eventually be big money makers. However, if people don't catch on at the beginning, they may never catch on -- so that is somewhat of a Catch 22.

If a game does not reach the median/mean level of sales for games of its genre on that console, it could be thought of as a flop. Then again, if it made money or introduced a new IP, the same caveat as discussed above may be in play.

Finally, there are the expectations flop. If a game does live up to its commercial or critical expectations, then there are those who would call it a flop. But if the game "broke even" or "made money," it might be more of an under-performer than a true flop. And a poor game is a poor game -- regardless of how well it does in sales.

Mike from Morgantown



      


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Bokal said:

We often see on this site threads about how a game is a flop, then goes an endless thread of "yes it is. no it isn't".

So when, for you, is a game a flop?

 

When it doesn't reach the 1M mark?

When it doesn't sell more than 1/20th of the system owner base?

When the devs don't get their money back?

When it doesn't reach expectations?

When it does sell less than the average of its genre?

 

 

1) No, some game don´t need to sell a lot, but are still taken as succes. If I remember correctly, Galactic Civilization 2 haven´t 1 mil sales, but is still succes.

2) When you have exceptional HW sales, it would be pretty hard. When you have 100m DS, only games, which sold at least 5 mil are OK?

3) Definitely. Money rules. If dev didn´t their money back, it´s bad, really bad.

4) Internet expectation? Sometimes, it´s hard. Dev expectations? Yes, if dev thinks, that game sold too bad, it´s flop. But it´s again about money.

5) Even in genres, games aren´t same. 1 mil for Final Fantasy game is bad, but for Persona game, is pretty good. Again, it´s depends, how many cost the game.

For short, IMO money are reason No. 1.



Reasonable said:
For me flop is relative to the game and how well it achieves certain metrics versus reasonable expectations for its sales/critical/market reception

So for example I'd judge something like Flower very differently from Killzone 2 and wouldn't use the same measurement all the time (i.e. 1M sales to be a hit).

I think the true flops tend to be obvious - titles that looked promising, review poorly, get poor online notices, sell poorly vs similar titles and general stink up the gaming universe.

I do notice that since the 360/PS3 fight started (and Wii went in a different direction) lots of people are falling over to claim 'flop' with the most tenuous of justification.

So if it makes money, reviews okay and finds an audience its not a flop IMHO.

I don't think reviews should matter...

Heavenly sword got pretty bad reviews(79 on metacritic), even if it was a great game, and sold 1.35M in the end... I don't consider it a flop...

Same for Mirror's edge or WWE smackdow vs raw 2009... Metacritic is full of such exemples...

I still hate metacritic...

 



They will know Helgan belongs to Helghasts