So if a game isn't in the top 5, then people aren't buying it?

Wii Music's 2.21 million sales mean absolutely nothing, because it's not in the top 5. I suppose that Mario Kart DS's astronomical sales mean nothing, because it's garnered them hanging out in the teens for the last few years. (I haven't seen the Wii version in the top 5 but for maybe once or twice, and look what it's done to the best selling HD titles that got to be in the top 5.)

Zelda:
NES 6.51m, 4.38m (Zelda II)
SNES 4.61
N64 7.60m (Ocarina) 3.36m (Majoras)
Gamecube 4.55m (Wind Waker)
Wii 5.10m (Twilight Princess) And still counting.


Metroid
NES 2.73m
SNES 1.42m
Gamecube 2.83m (mp1), 1.29m (mp2)
Wii 1.49m, so far.

Mario
NES 40.24m, 7.46m (2), 17.28m (3)
SNES 20.61m
N64 11.89m
Gamecube 6.28m
Wii 7.92m, so far.

Mariokart

SNES 8.76m
N64 9.87m
Gamecube 6.96m
Wii 14.01m, so far.

(*Edit)  Animal Crossing

Gamecube  2.98m

Wii 2.19m, and only what, 2 months after its release?

Chinks in the armor? Please.

So look at Zelda. It's still selling, and doing about what Zelda does in sales. It's a hardcore game, and selling to it's core audience.

"Critical acceptance" means nothing. Especially to these new gamers you keep referring to. Do you think they come to websites and read reviews for games? Or do you think they go over to their friends homes, play something like Carnival Games, and then go out and buy it for themselves?

Based on your own arguement, I can assess that these new gamers ARE buying games. Just not the ones you want to dictate to them.

And Wii Music is going to keep selling for a long, long time. So will all those other "(non)-critically accepted" games you refer to. And the core games continue to sell equally to, or better than many of their past incarnations.

(*Edit)- Also, if the new gamers aren't buying these games, again, how did Sonic and Mario at the olympics hit 6,648,997 units sold? Animal Crossing Wii is still in the top 10 worldwide (7th),  and all of the music games across all platforms are now being dominated by the Wii. 

So I see two things: 1) Core gamers are buying the core franchises at equal to, or higher than, the past numbers. 2) New Wii owners are buying TONS of games you don't like.

One other point: Why do people place expectations on new gamers to be rabid game buyers, right out of the gate?

@Shanobi: Actually the biggest problem the reviews face, is that when a new audience gamer happens to read a review about his favourite game and it gets rated as shit, the person loses its trust to reviews (just as well as core does too). Then, they may try a high rated game, they think it must be something super, and find the game being shit, it only damages the reviewers even more.

@BTFeather: So... Why there is no reason to suspect? Could you point out where you got that idea.

Hell, I've lost any trust I've had in reviews as well. In my opinion, the entire game review industry is built on the backs of now mostly grown boys, who don't want to see their hobby change in any way, shape, or form, and they're fighting tooth and nail to keep it that way.

@BTFeather: honestly, you're just to stole Crazzyman's place as the most twisted anti-wii posts I've read here so far..

So apparently if the new audience doesn't buy the games YOU THINK they are good then is just a fad about to explode? ookaay..

and no people doesn't buy the wii because of wii sports, no..that's why the xboxarcade sells like carzy, huh?

and chinks in the armor? what are you talking about? it smashed the PS3 and Xbox360's sale at a time more than once last year! Animal crossing and wii music are still selling!

or do you know something that we don't know? because stats say something totally different.

I am sorry that the wii has destroyed you gamer dreams this generation. But you know what? lying and distorting reality won't make things better. It only makes you look like a delusional troll. Get. Over. It.

This is what I love. Whenever I talk about sales with a wii supporter it's always "if you exclude this" or "if you take that out of the equation".

I once responded to some dolt who said gaming was losing popularity and market by saying that gaming has been growing tremendously every year. He said that as a way of saying that the Wii was needed to stimulate the failing market. He then said, "well if you take the wii and the ds out of the sales, then gaming is actually falling 9%". What a stupid argument. You say that it is the wii that is saving the market and then include the ds which not many people actually have a problem with. Lots of people, even hardcorez like myself, love the ds and what it does for the industry. The Wii on the other hand, just doesn't have the same advantages as the ds, in terms of games, portability, price and so on.

but I digress....

"If you take MMO's out of the picture... " First thing in my mind- "WTF"

What kind of argument is that. I have never heard a more blatant disregard of rationale in order to prove a point.

MMO is part of the industry, it is a type of game that has been around forever. If RTS' controlled the market like back in the starcraft, war craft, red alert days, then your argument would be "take away the RTS's blah blah blah". It's a synonymous statement.

Right now, that is what is popular. You take it away like it somehow makes sense, but what makes more sense is that WoW is the biggest game of all time, and has taken gamers from other genres.

 The sales are increasing, it is just that the genre dominance changes.
This, you may find hard to believe, is why other games are having a hard time, this and piracy. And yet, lo and behold, amidst all the piracy that is going on, which is also growing every year especially now in the recession, pc game sales are STILL increasing. So take that bullshit somewhere else.

I'm not even going to focus on the resst of your statement because it relies on the "fact" that PC gaming is in decline.

@bdbdbd
I read your post, and I completely agree with you. Not one bit of it is something I have ever said is untrue. However, despite your logic, which I also feel is very accurate detailed, you leave one bit out.

In the part where Nintendo is going to follow the core market upstream, you have no timeline and you guesstimate at what will happen. No doubt that nintendo is going to put out some core games, but they also did so last year. So that is just obvious. The doubt that I have is when you think they will get more core games, because looking at the trend, I see more cancellations and downgrades from everything nintendo. From stellar zelda graphics on the GC, to the cancellation of KidIc. coupled with what I feel is a real slap in the face to core gamers for the last ten months.

It's funny because when I was young, I used to read reviews of games I played. And honestly, I would say, "hmph, that game was kind of glitchy.... I enjoyed it, but there was problems with the reuse of certain sounds over and over. It got a 76.."

Buys a high rated game like Earthworm Jim. "huh, wow this game is awesome. I thought the other game was awesome, but this is amazing. Oh it got a 9.5, man so there can even be better than this? I'm just going to enjoy this."

I don't know how people think nowadays but when I read reviews, it wasn't the final word, but it did represent a kind of expectation. Of course not all games lived up to them, but a 9+ game was one that I always found worth it. I don't think I've ever played a 9+ game and thought it was undeserving of being at least within .5 of what it was actually worth, and that large range is only because of Halo3 and GTA4.

Kid Icarus was never even announced, it was a rumor.

Also, I'd argue with your point about MMORPG's being popular. World of Warcraft is popular, the rest...not so much.

http://hellforge.gameriot.com/blogs/Caveat-Emptor/The-MMO-Crash-of-2008

From everything I've seen and read, MMORPG's are a failing business, again, with the exception of WoW, and Warhammer..

And yes, without the Wii how would these game studios and publishers be able to barely keep their heads above water right now with their HD development costs? (And mostly losses.)

@ Shanobi, that is simply because WoW is the best. All the other gamers are going to Wow. It's just that good of a game. It has no flaws (that I can think of).
But you know what, things will just move to a different genre. Starcraft 2 and diablo 3 are coming up soon and with a nice red alert 3 that just came out and a sims 3 soon, these genres are going to be reinvigorated.

HD development costs are not that high. They are high because they want them to be "HD" games. You could easily put any of the wii games on a ps3 or 360. Had nintendo released another gamecube, I would've gotten it, but they aren't satisfied making money like they used to.
I don't know why they said they were going to pull out if the wii tanked. They only made money, ever.

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