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Forums - Sales - Does Anyone Actually expect the PS3 to Outsell 360 this Xmas?

DMeisterJ said:
starcraft said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:
starcraft said:
Come now DMJ. It is common knowledge that Sony makes a TONNE on PSP hardware. Thats why they keep pushing the system even with the abysmal software rates. It's bringing in huge profit for them.

Whilst I'm sure Sony clears plenty on each PS2, I agree that software has dropped off massively. But basically the only place Sony is LOSING money is PS3 hardware. And the loss must be enormous.

It certainly was, but is it still now? If Sony sold PS3 losing $100 each six months ago, it shouldn't lose very much now, HW costs drop quickly.

And in EU the price is inflated compared to what it should be simply adding VAT, even now that the Euro isn't strong as in the past. Most probably here in Europe PS3 has already stopped losing money for a while.

Sony lost hundreds of millions last quarter on the PS3 even AFTER taking into account large PS2 and PSP profits.

Question:

Is that Large PS2 and [Large] PSP profits, or is it just Large PS2 profits, and just making a profit on PSP? 

It's misleading (most likely intentionally so), but I just want to see what you mean, as it can be interpreted in more ways than one.

Large for both.

I don't know how you missed it, but general opinion for almost two years has been that the PSP is making a truckload of cash on hardware.

 



starcraft - Playing Games = FUN, Talking about Games = SERIOUS

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starcraft said:
DMeisterJ said:
starcraft said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:
starcraft said:
Come now DMJ. It is common knowledge that Sony makes a TONNE on PSP hardware. Thats why they keep pushing the system even with the abysmal software rates. It's bringing in huge profit for them.

Whilst I'm sure Sony clears plenty on each PS2, I agree that software has dropped off massively. But basically the only place Sony is LOSING money is PS3 hardware. And the loss must be enormous.

It certainly was, but is it still now? If Sony sold PS3 losing $100 each six months ago, it shouldn't lose very much now, HW costs drop quickly.

And in EU the price is inflated compared to what it should be simply adding VAT, even now that the Euro isn't strong as in the past. Most probably here in Europe PS3 has already stopped losing money for a while.

Sony lost hundreds of millions last quarter on the PS3 even AFTER taking into account large PS2 and PSP profits.

Question:

Is that Large PS2 and [Large] PSP profits, or is it just Large PS2 profits, and just making a profit on PSP? 

It's misleading (most likely intentionally so), but I just want to see what you mean, as it can be interpreted in more ways than one.

Large for both.

I don't know how you missed it, but general opinion for almost two years has been that the PSP is making a truckload of cash on hardware.

Apparently I must be living under a rock, cause I've never read anything on it.  I know how people have gone and done research on PS3 and how it cost 880 to make initially, and how much 360 costed, and Wii and PS2, but I've never, ever seen it for PSP. 

I'm not saying it isn't true, but I have really been looking for how the PSP is doing in making money on hardware, to get a sense of what Sony is working with, but my searches have always come up nil.  Can you link me to a story that talks about this?  This is the first time I'm ever hearing that sony is really bringing home the bacon on PSP hardware sales.



No, I can't link you to the story.

It is an assumption, but a commonly held and logical one.

Can you think of a single valid reason why Sony would constantly redesign and re-release with extra features, a console that sells virtually no software, if they weren't making a killing on hardware?



starcraft - Playing Games = FUN, Talking about Games = SERIOUS

starcraft said:
No, I can't link you to the story.

It is an assumption, but a commonly held and logical one.

Can you think of a single valid reason why Sony would constantly redesign and re-release with extra features, a console that sells virtually no software, if they weren't making a killing on hardware?

I believe Sony is stupid enough to believe that a hardware refresh could turn things around into Nintendo DS Lite-like epicness.  Look how far losing a few ounces and a brighter screen brought the original DS.  It was getting pwned by the PSP but that one thing helped it go to crazy sales.

Can you think of a single valid reason that Sony would allow the PSP to be killed in hardware sales over the last two and a half years if they were really making money on the console?  Why they would drop the price of the system only once, and by a measly 20 dollars yet remain so high priced that the systems sales suffer?  If they're making so much off of the PSP why not price cut, instead of revising the hardware?  Why continue to let the DS win at a lower price point?  Why not try $150 or $130?  Why keep it at $170 for the last almost two years in the face of lower priced competition?  They seemed to cut the PS3 price by 1/3 only 12 months after launch, but only cut PSPs price by 1/8 four years after launch.  There are many reasons to believe that PSP is selling at a profit than there isn't.  Which is incidentally, what I said earlier.



For a very simple reason.

The PSP is different to other consoles in that there is very little correlation between userbase and software sales.

If the console is making $50 per unit (it could be a little less or a lot more) and you know having more out there won't effect software sales very much, why drop the price and lose hardware cash on a wasted venture?



starcraft - Playing Games = FUN, Talking about Games = SERIOUS

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starcraft said:
For a very simple reason.

The PSP is different to other consoles in that there is very little correlation between userbase and software sales.

If the console is making $50 per unit (it could be a little less or a lot more) and you know having more out there won't effect software sales very much, why drop the price and lose hardware cash on a wasted venture?

There's a multitude of reasons why the userbase and software don't add up, but that's for another thread. 

The fact is that there is no conclusive evidence either way about the PSP and the money it does or doesn't make.  And yes, we can assume things, but that never gets anyone far in life.



Magnific0 said:

I stand by this unrefutable truth:

Microsoft already made their huge move (under $200 X360), and they WON'T have (read CAN'T without mutilating their Games's Division) a price cut in ANY territory until very likely 2010. If during the next 12 months they drop the price of any of their SKUs by as little as $50 it'll be undoubtedly a fire sale, 'cause no one, NONE, would reduce the price of a product as such an alarming fast rate it it wasn't deep in trouble.

However, Sony still has a price-cut move left and I believe they're saving it for next-year when Microsoft won't be able to do nothing of the kind to counter it. MS is definitely expecting to bank hard on this Christmas, specially with Gears of War 2 gracing their holiday lineup. Gears 2 + low hardware price = winning combo, no? We will see January 1st if Microsoft won convincingly this X-mas or if on the contrary, their calculations will cost them an early exit from this generation war.

 

 Your unrefutable truth is flawed based on history. 

October 2000 PS2 launches at $299

May 2002 PS2 price drops to $199. That is 18 months later.

May 2003 PS2 price drops to $179. That is 12 months later.

 

November 2005 360 launches at $299/$399

August 2007 360 prices drop to $279/$349. That is 22 months later.

September 2008 360 prices drop to $199/$299. That is 13 months later.

 

So it took the 360 35 months to drop as much as the PS2 dropped in 18 months.  Expect the 360 to drop another $50 when the PS3 drops in price late next year.  That is if MS feels threatened otherwise see at more modest $20 decrease.  Also expect to see HDD drive size increase again simply because the smaller drives become more costly to purchase.



Its libraries that sell systems not a single game.

thx1139 said:
Magnific0 said:

I stand by this unrefutable truth:

Microsoft already made their huge move (under $200 X360), and they WON'T have (read CAN'T without mutilating their Games's Division) a price cut in ANY territory until very likely 2010. If during the next 12 months they drop the price of any of their SKUs by as little as $50 it'll be undoubtedly a fire sale, 'cause no one, NONE, would reduce the price of a product as such an alarming fast rate it it wasn't deep in trouble.

However, Sony still has a price-cut move left and I believe they're saving it for next-year when Microsoft won't be able to do nothing of the kind to counter it. MS is definitely expecting to bank hard on this Christmas, specially with Gears of War 2 gracing their holiday lineup. Gears 2 + low hardware price = winning combo, no? We will see January 1st if Microsoft won convincingly this X-mas or if on the contrary, their calculations will cost them an early exit from this generation war.

 

 Your unrefutable truth is flawed based on history. 

October 2000 PS2 launches at $299

May 2002 PS2 price drops to $199. That is 18 months later.

May 2003 PS2 price drops to $179. That is 12 months later.

 

November 2005 360 launches at $299/$399

August 2007 360 prices drop to $279/$349. That is 22 months later.

September 2008 360 prices drop to $199/$299. That is 13 months later.

 

So it took the 360 35 months to drop as much as the PS2 dropped in 18 months.  Expect the 360 to drop another $50 when the PS3 drops in price late next year.  That is if MS feels threatened otherwise see at more modest $20 decrease.  Also expect to see HDD drive size increase again simply because the smaller drives become more costly to purchase.

And that of course had nothing to do with the RRoD....

 



yes 360 will kill ps3 in america, just like how everyone said it was going to last month? but the 360 only sold a measly 100k more which is nothing when it comes to the price and it was the first month of the price cut, so it was the biggest effect. stop with the " low price" bullshit. yes it does have some effect but it isnt the only factor.



Although i don't expect it, it wouldn't surprise me. Not a hope in NA though



 

 assumption is the mother of all f**k ups