You have good points and a lot of bad points. 1) is a good point, but the fact that PC software progresses with respect to consoles means that we get the newer games with the shinier grphics, and more importantly, the newer gameplay mechanics with stuff like newish physics, shadows, and other things which we don't know of yet which might add a lot to gameplay.

2) Good point, ecept Most HD games now require you to install something too and many of them have started having patches and what not so it's a moot point. Also I don't know where you get the manually setting up files, but I don't think I've had to do that since mid 90s, maybe even earlier. Also the graphical set up goes hadn in hand with what I was talking about in 1). As the games evolve we will need to lower setitngs, this ensures that my PC from 3 or 4 years can play the newest games, which are also 3-4 years ahead of console games.

3)Plain false.Multiple types of input? Games designed for controllers but not MKB? Hate to break it to you but many many genres were made around the KBD+Mouse set up, FPS is one of them. And how escatly are keyboard controls generic at all? You can actually customize every single key that you have to an action you want it to do. It's anything but generic, it is very personalized.

4) Blizzard games have always been on the PC and even if it changes it in the distant future I doubt it will have much effect on consoles. Remember Starcraft for the PS (or was it PS2?)?

As for innovative games, what about Portal? It has to be one of the most original and groundbreaking games so far this half decade. Also isn't Nintendo supposedly making an HD console for their next generation entry?

OT: The consoles are treading drangerously close to PCs and for their sake I hope they start backing off bececause otherwise the PC will overshadow more and more the closer they get to becoming PCs. Sadly I can see consoles coming out where you will be able to upgrade hardware and drivers and what not, and if that happens I predict that consoels will die out.

Haha, I'm a nerd too because I chose Moore's law for my topic

So here's a summary of my report

Moore noticed in 1963 that the amount of transistors that could be cost effectively fitted onto a single chip had doubled every 3 years. Transistors perform Boolean logic operations. But simply having twice as many transistors does not necessarily imply twice the performance.

Moore suggested that this might continue to happen, and he was right. Although growth actually accelerated, now it's closer to number of transistors doubling every 18 months. Moore's law also works for things like the number of megapixels per dollar of digital cameras, flash memory follows moore's law but is currently doubling every 12 months.

Now I'll explain a bit how this doubling can be brought about.

In the early 2000's, we made the leap to the 90 nm node, which essentially means that the size of the smallest components in a computer chip is about 90nm, where 1 000 000 000 nm is 1 metre. Computer chips are made using Electromagnetic Radiation (ie light, UV, Infared) and in this case they used UV rays, with a lower wavelength than had been used previously. This allows them to produce finer patterns, and is analogous to using a thinner blade to cut something. For various reasons, this was really expensive to do.

So the next time there was a reduction, to the 65 nm node currently in use in the PS360, the wavelength was kept same, and a trick was used to allow smaller technology. It is called Optical Proximity Correction - OPC (check wikipedia for more details) If you try to make components much smaller than the wavelength, there will be errors. OPC is a mathematical way to work out what these errors will be, and compensating for them.

Several companies have started using 45 nm technology, using the same wavelength as the 90 nm process. Again, a special technique is being used. A Phase Shift mask (check wikipedia again) is a sheet of glass that slows down a light wave by exactly half a period. You can then use a combination of the original light and the slowed light to create components half the size that they otherwise could be.

Intel has detailed several of their plans for future chip designs Double Etching (see wiki) involves splitting the manufacturing process into two steps. Say you had a holepunch that puts two holes 10cm apart. If you want 4 holes each 5 cm apart, you use it once, move it 5 cm over and then use it again. Double etching just does this on a much greater scale. If we can develop accurate enough machines, triple, quadruple etching are possible. Double etching will be used to take us to the 32 nm process.

At this point, we need to look into some new materials. Because as dimensions get smaller, electrcity starts conducting across barriers that it isn't meant to be able to. Immersion Lithography (wiki) can also be useful, although suffers many of the drawbacks of reducing the wavelength such as cost.

The 22 nm node can be reached using these technologies discussed

The 16 nm node is apparently reachable, although would require triple or quadruple etching

Intel says that it sees a clear way towards the 11 nm node, but that's all the detail I have

As far as I can see, Moore's law will be relevant for a long time

Thanks scottie! You should put your article on Wiki a lot easier to understand =). When do you think we'll reach 16nm or 11nm?

You can very easily see between 15fps and 30fps (movies are 24fps). Actually 15fps would be almost unplayable so very few games are that slow. Difference between 30fps and 60fps is much smaller however. And about resolution... That depends how big screen you have.

16nm process at around 2018 and 11nm process at around 2022.  -from wiki.

You read the points, but not the summary. All of the issues you point out are problems that the HD consoles are suffering from. I already pointed out that YES, they are in danger of the problem of being replaced by computers. That's why I pointed out that most of my issues are taken from what Nintendo has done with the Wii.

1) Shinier graphics do not make a game significantly better than the same game without shiny graphics. Newish Physics? Shadows? All of this is a moot point, because while the HD consoles might die out from this factor, the consoles that don't follow this methodology will not be affected. (as I've pointed out numerous times; Wii)

2) See, this is actually a bad point on your side. Either that or missing my point. The original issue was basically the idea that consoles will be pushed to the side. I'm raising a counter issue that they won't by citing points over which PCs will not overcome, not that they couldn't, just that they wont. In this case, HD consoles may now have instals, but that doesn't negate the point for those consoles that don't use instals (Wii)

3) Again you're missing the point. All keyboards allow you to do is have a BUNCH of buttons, and most games that use them allow you to customize your key layout. Why? because you need that level of customization for how much trouble they are. Most consoles don't have that level of customization because when the controls are set up properly, you don't NEED it. Seriously, analog stick will ALWAYS be better for moving from walk to run, etc. Seriously, think about it, what if you want to RUN forward while straffing slowly but SMOOTHLY to the side? A keyboard can't do that because one key is dedicated to making you run or walk, and then whatever movement keys you press after that are both affected the same way. just because a LOT of games are designed around Mouse+Keyboard doesn't make that control setup a good one, simply put, a lot of games are designed that way because they HAD to be in order to sell on the PC platform.

4) yeah, your blizzard point just totally misses whatever mark it was supposed to be hitting. Or maybe it hit it, but I can't tell because your mark is so far off from where it needed to be. It doesn't matter what PC games are available, it's not like we're arguing for the survival of the PC platform. Even if there were no games at all, PCs would still be bought. I'm arguing for the survival of the Console platform. As long as there are exclusive games that can only be played on a console(and as long as Nintendo exists, there will be), the console platform will survive. It doesn't matter what PC only games there are.

otherstuff) I'm not talking about innovative software. you can obviously have that whether it's on PC or console. I'm talking about innovative hardware, sorry for not being clear, as I said, I was distracted towards the end there. Again, my example is citing the Wii as a specific example. You never would have been capable of having that innovation become accepted as a standard if it had been released on a PC, and even if it is attempted in the next 10 years, it will not become a standard that can be taken advantage of by PC games for the reasons I already stated. Guitar Hero and DDR would have completely failed if they had attempted to release for just the PC.

Guessing you have been missing all the HD next gen Nintendo system talk out there with HD graphics and all. I doubt Nintendo won't do it, seems to be the only way for them to improve on the wii atm. That said, I'll keep this short:

1) assuming wii does go HD, and it's a pretty good assumption, the pattern of consoles becoming more like PCs will only continue.

2) Same as point 1). They are already lamenting the fact they didn't have a storage solution on the Wii and implementing one right now. Also with HD graphics next gen I don't see why it won't have installs and updates and all that still.

3)That only applies to games with platformer elements and that's it. For everything else it doesn't matter how precise you are and whether you are walking or running, well maybe sneaking games too, but it's funny that the beast seaking game is still on the PC, Thief 2.

4) Yes, Nintendo will be always making games but if everyone else starts making games for other platforms and no one other than Nintendo is making games for their system then it doesn't really matter. Nintendo alone would not be able to pull the entire console industry assuming everything else was dead or on another platform. While I agree that the Wii gets major points for innovation, the motion controls are used effecttively and uniquely only for the Wii games and other such party-like games, which many consider casual. I agree that you can't have party games on your computer, unless you do a lot of work on the set up first, so I guess that will always be a console only feature.

Guys

HD graphics =/= following the "PC connected to your TV" line of console design logic

1) While the Wii isn't "affected" from the increasing gap of quality between PC and Consoles, the truth is that the Wii is on such a low level that 99% of PC gamers would never consider trading PC for the Wii.

2) One accurate statement is: "PC Gaming is getting easier and more intuitive, while Console Gaming is becoming more complicated". PC Gaming's compatibility issues have decreased alot since the late 90's, you can buy and play games without ever needing the disk, auto-patching is becoming the norm, PC games' requirements are way less demanding, hardware upgrades are not as needed anymore, and a PC now can last more than an entire console generation.

Consoles, on the other hand, are less intuitive, have more features, installs, constant updates, game patching, etc... The Wii, even though it's still very simplified, is also more complicated than Gamecube.

3) It's clear you play little PC games. I don't think I ever changed any keys layout of a game that came out in the last 3-4 years. The only games I remember right now that I changed keys were Thief 1 (1998) and Anachronox (2001), both over 7 years old. Nowadays developers test the feel and positions of the keys and try to give the best for it, so it's pretty much useless to complain about this.

And you're wrong when saying that having so many buttons is troublesome, because:

a) They are usually on "standardized positions" that are considered the best for their functions. For example, in FPS the numbered keys that are above the letter keys are usually to choose the weapons, and 'Q' and 'E' keys are for sideways looking, SPACE is for jump, etc...

b) Most of the keys are OPTIONAL!!! They are merely there for people that want the fastest input like, you know, 99% of PC gamers. You aren't need to choose your weapon through the numbered keys, instead you can just easily choose the gun from the mousewheel. And regardless how you get your weapon, both way are faster than choosing from a gamepad.

And LOL for you thinking a gamepad is better than KB+M. Dude, on PC you can easily do what you said, and I'll do you one better:

- With a KB+M you can run and move diagonally (forward + strafe) then jump left, change weapons while mid-air, do a 360º turn, crouch and BOOM, HEADSHOT!! All of this in less than 1 second. Or when you face an enemy you can do insanely fast movements that doesn't allow your opponent to aim at your head, like rapidly change between strafing left and right or crouch, while you try headshot him. You can't do this on a console because auto-aim + clunky movement controls don't allow for this high level skill.

I'll do you one better: Do you know why in Proffessional Gaming Competitions the Sports Games are ALWAYS played with a Keyboard? Because the Keyboard allows for a superior and faster input that gamepads can't provide. Infact, in any multiplatform game the keyboard/mouse is chosen as the main controller of the game in proffessional gaming, regardless whether the game sold more on PC or not. For Example, in FIFA 08, a sports game, has the Keyboard as the controller for proffessional competitions like WCG or CGS, because the keyboard provides a faster input than the gamepad, and FIFA 08 sold far more on consoles than on PC.

4) His point probably was that consoles are getting more features and complications, while PC is getting more intuitive, and there will be a time where PC and consoles will be so close to each other that they will all be in the same category like PC or Home Theater or something else.

You talk about the wii, but there has been already mouses that use the same motion as the Wiimote, it just hasn't been applied to games. It isn't standard, but just like optical or wireless mouses, there will be someday that might rise it to popularity.

Okay, first off, a console being able to display in 1080 is not what makes it PC-like. That's just a display issue and it's utterly ridiculous to try to equate those together. On top of that, using an unconfirmed rumor to support your point is even more ridiculous. The only way Nintendo would include 1080p support in their next console is if enough 1080p capable TVs were actually in people's homes, in which case this is like including A/V jacks instead of RCA jacks, they're just following the standard that's already out there.

Second of all, the "storage solution" consists of making it easier to use SD cards. They haven't even come out and been clear of what the "solution" is going to involve. Even then, there's  adifference between "hey you want to play this game? poof the game is on your console now go play it" and "let instal wizard help guide you through the process of installing the game, do you want the big instal or the little instal, where should it be installed, etc"

Third of all, my issues to the controls apply to ANY game that has MOVEMENT that is not directly related to AIMING, and as to your issues with Thief, it plays better with a PS2 controller, I don't care if it was only released on the PC. The platform a  game is released on provides no proof of the benefit that platform's controls provide the game.

Finally, as long as Nintendo makes games for their console, 3rd parties will also develop games for that console as well, even if its just ports of PC games. On top of that, Nintendo has already set the Wii up to be able to do things that the PC won't ever do, which will also attract more developers.

You're acting like Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo are trains on some kind of track headed inevitably to their ultimate doom, but they AREN'T. If consoles stray too far into PC territory, those consoles will fail and leave behind the ones that were smart enough to stick to those things that seperate a console from a PC. In this particular case, Wii has chosen NOT to push the graphics department, NOT to incorporate a huge hard drive and come out with games that require a huge installation, NOT to focus on playing non-gaming media, and instead incorporate an innovative control setup that you will NEVER get on the PC, and most importantly NOT cost $300 - $600 right out of the starting gate.

To put simply, there is already a company that knows the difference between a PC and a console, and they have made a raving success of it. Consoles will NOT die out.