Donkey Kong Country 2 currently is my only masterpiece.

There seriously is almost nothing wrong with it.

I love Del Toro.

It pains me to admit that I'm not a huge fan of either of these games.

I hear people claim that they are emotional, but the problem lies in the lack of narrative.

That said, I got about 45 minutes into ICO recently, before I got bored, and I sold the game.

I actually almost enjoy the gameplay in SotC enough to finish it, but I always again, get bored. It's like I have to play these long, repetitive, cool looking games for 15 minutes of emotion at the end.

I still have SotC. It is very likely that one day I will pick it up again, and see its full potential.

This is the first time I've ever admitted this, but playing those games makes me feel like I'm at an art museum with my girlfriend, looking at all this cool art and getting emotional about it.

The only problem is, if it was up to me, I'd just stay home and watch TV.

I admit the games are AAA, and I can't tell you why I get really bored everytime I play them, but I can tell you it's hard to have an opinion that is contrary to basically every accepted opinion on the planet.

Great AAA masterpieces!? Hell yeah, sure.

Zenfoldor want to play? I'd rather replay the Simpson's game or Gun...or rent Too Human.



Anyway, an overlooked masterpiece is Silverload for the PS1.

Yeah Shadow of the Colossus was really good I've never played Ico though.

I'd appreciate it if Guillermo would stick to making movies like Pan's, and not sell his soul to make junk like hellboy... (except when it finances another upcoming masterpiece ofcourse)

we all have our opinions...

Holy shit. I was preparing a massive post about this but decided against it. To me, this thread has illustrated three things:

1) Some people wouldn't know art if it crept into their room during the night and corpse-humped them til they woke the next morning.

2) Del Toro is right, though I think if he played more, he would expand that list a bit. Either way, his two choices are about as close to pure video game orgasmic art as it comes (sic).

3) Reasonable has just articulated the part of my next editorial that I couldn't break through. Brilliant posts and some of the smartest I've seen in awhile. .

If any of that is directed at me Rocketpig, I can assure you that I recognize these games as are. I wrote:

This is the first time I've ever admitted this, but playing those games makes me feel like I'm at an art museum with my girlfriend, looking at all this cool art and getting emotional about it.

The worst canvas ever made could contain the best art ever created. Quality of a game, and percieved quality of said game as a piece of art are mutually exclusive. Just because I don't enjoy the game(though I admit it was great, despite not being able to hold my attention, very particular tastes that I have), doesn't mean that I don't recognize it as a piece of art.

Saying, "He said he didn't like the game, so he must have not recognized that it was art" is one dimensional. Perhaps I did recognize the art, and loved it, but felt that it didn't make for a fun game. Perhaps I recognized the art and hated it, but loved the game. Perhaps I don't want my games to be art. Perhaps I simply hate intentional art, and despise the people who create it.

Braid, for example, is a fantastic game. When I hear people claim that the game is art, I have to agree, but in a different sense than they probably mean. The game itself holds many artistic themes, like the paintings and the music, however, if "art" is the theme of something, it doesn't necessarily make the thing itself art. If I go to an art museum, is the museum itself art? Possibly, but for our discussion, it isn't intentional. Braid might have contained intentional art, but as a whole unit, the product was in the end, more well known for being a fantastic game, than an artistic masterpiece.

You can recognize something as great art, without recognizing it for having a great canvas. The basic game in SotC(the wires and frames, and blips, without the emotion or character) is simply the canvas upon which the art was created. While I can certainly appreciate the amazing art, and yes, I even enjoy the canvas, in the end, I bought the damn thing to enjoy the canvas, and I couldn't appreciate it enough to actually get to the end, no matter how great the motivation to see the masterpiece had become.

It was hard for me to come out and admit my true feelings about these games, as I know it goes completely against popular appeal and perception. I'd appreciate it if it could be marginalized more along the lines of "he just doesn't appreciate art" instead of, "You were too stupid to realize that it was art, and if you knew that, then you would have loved it because everyone loves art, and if they could, they wouldn't do boring crap like watch football, watch low-brow comedic films, or play gears of war, when art is obviously far superior in everyone's opinion and must be respected."

I gave respect like hell to both of those games in my post, even though I ended up regretting the purchase of both of them. Screw it though. Next time one of those games comes out, I'm just watching the ending on youtube and getting it over with. They should start putting "art" warnings on the box.

Wow, Zen. I could not have asked for a better post. The articulate form that rivals the oppposition.

I serously love this thread.

Del Toro's movie, Pan's Labryinth is a fairy-tale that takes place in a more modern setting. I think it's only natural that he'd gravitate toward games with a similar theme like Ico or SoTC. SotC sort of mirrors Pan's Labryinth in that, the ending gives you mixed emotions about how everything resolves itself.

But yeah, it's all subjective. I think what was so great about SoTC was that it had an otherworldly feel to it and made you wonder about about The Forbidden Land, who these characters were, and what the hell you were going to fight next. But if you didn't get caught up in the 'mystery', then my guess is it won't do anything for you and just seem repetitive.

Some games are bad, some games are good, and some, the really great ones, have you thinking about them long after they are finished.

team ico
AMEN"