Masterpieces of the current generation are: MGS 4 and UnCharted.
| Reasonable said: What does Mario Super Bros. convey then? Also, I'd make the distinction between 'accidental' art and intended art. Good food presentation is nice and all - but what is its purpose? To create art or to make your meal look nicer. Anything can be art - but whether its Banksy with Graffeti or Warhol with silver blow up ballons there needs to be more than simply making something look nice (a building, food, etc) to qualify as true art IMHO. The simple point is very few games are made to be works of art. A lot of creative effort goes into them, but they are designed to be played and to make money for the most part and most (in fact probably 90%) are totally derivative of popular themes no matter what effort goes into design, etc. It's like James Cameron says - there are films and movies. He makes movies by his own admission - fun, well made, highly creative but not intended as high art. I think he described Titanic as his 'accidental film' - although I'd actually argue with the man that Aliens and Terminator is the best work he's produced and the closest to high art. Anyway you can't resolve something like this as despite their being certain views on what Art is there is a great deal of subjective opinion as well. I'll stick with ICO and SOTC as games that are also art. There are a few other games I'd consider too. Silent Hill 2 and Portal for example. Some of the greatest games ever are for me just games. If you see some as art too then that's fine, too. Oh, and thanks for one of the most intelligent debates I've had on the forums for a while - it sure makes a change from reading fanboys argue about PS3 vs 360... |
Well, being aesthetically pleasing is certainly one of the simplest and most common goals of art. I don't see why something should be invalidated as 'true art' because it was only meant to look pretty. What is aesthetically pleasing is mostly subjective, although there are quite a few people who think they know the secrets of beauty.
Another common goal is to evoke an emotional response. In the case of well-made food, the desired emotion is usually desire followed by satisfaction. In the case of popular music, it's usually love, sorrow, or exuberance. In the case of video games, it's usually joy and amusement, though anger, determination and a sense of accomplishment often come into play.
But I sense that the goal you value most is provoking thought. I'll agree that most games do not aim to provoke thought, but I don't that in any way invalidates them as art. The desire to provoke emotion is still there, even in the simplest games, and the desire for attractive appearance. I don't think that the intended message has to be subtle or obtuse for the art to be good.
I don't see the relevance in the distinction between accidental or intended art, personally. By it's nature, art is one half creation and one half interpretation, as you touched on with your tennis analogy. As soon as the creator has released his/her work, others will see what they want to see in it. Perhaps worst of all, they may see nothing at all! It has been assumed by many that David Brin's Uplift novels were a commentary on the goods and evils of patriarchal colonialism, but the author has repeatedly denied any such intention. To me, that just makes the novels even more interesting. Don't you think an unintentional message is more thought-provoking than an intentional one?
And I'm glad you're enjoying the conversation. I'm having just as much fun exploring my thoughts on the matter as you are.
"The worst part about these reviews is they are [subjective]--and their scores often depend on how drunk you got the media at a Street Fighter event." — Mona Hamilton, Capcom Senior VP of Marketing
*Image indefinitely borrowed from BrainBoxLtd without his consent.
| Rock_on_2008 said: Masterpieces of the current generation are: MGS 4 and UnCharted. |
I'd go with Bioshock, MGS4, and Galaxy(Uncharted ain't better than those, and about 20 other games I can list). However, I can't really name any game that I consider a masterpiece in the form of a game. As art however, I can see the point about ICO and SotC.
When you group UnCharted in with them, you cheapen the meaning of the word, and the quality of those games, in order to further your ongoing pro-Sony agenda.
Being Pro-Sony is so deeply ingrained in your psyche, that I feel at this point, you're just giving your real opinion. I think that you knowing a game is PS3 exclusive, actually makes the game more fun to you.
I don't need your console war.
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor.
You're power hungry, spinnin' stories, and bein' graphics whores.
I don't need your console war.
NO NO, NO NO NO.
| rocketpig said: Wow, Zen. I could not have asked for a better post. The articulate form that rivals the oppposition. I serously love this thread. |
lol, thanks for your compliment.
I don't need your console war.
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor.
You're power hungry, spinnin' stories, and bein' graphics whores.
I don't need your console war.
NO NO, NO NO NO.
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