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Forums - Sony - Here it is Folks! Why FFVII is one of the BEST GAMES EVAA!!!

Alasted on 12 August 2008

I disagree.



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swyggi on 12 August 2008
Kasz216 said:
swyggi said:
Kasz216 said:
forevercloud3000 said:
BringBackChrono said:
@forevercloud3000
it boils down to the age old policy of "to each his own", doesnt it?
Its just your preference ,when you say characters should have a voice. The LoZ series has stuck with the silent hero, and look how popular he still is.
My point was that CT was simply more fun to go through than FFVII, which too is a highly enjoyable game.You cant just compare two games in some pre-determined fields, cause there always is The "X" Factor involved.

P.S i really doubt the FF series overall outsells the Pokemon series so maybe take it off the FACTS list?

 

I kno, I just thought it would bring some good ideas on why ppl thing"PUTGAME HERE" is the best, over FFVII. Or why FFVII is SOOO terrible to some ppl (Who by the way have yet to give any reasons why, they just put this sucks blah blah...)

As far as the FACT that FF is the best selling series. I completely forgot about Pokemon. It does sell more but in a very unfair way. RUBY EMERALD and SAPHIRE are all lumped into one sales chart and treated as one game. A single person grabs all three so they can "CATCH THEM ALL" but in essense they complete one game. Its like playing FFVII and they sell the discs seperately. Thats why I did not have Pokemon in mind when I said that.

Last time I checked tho FF was in 4th place for best selling series of all time. Just behind Mario,Pokemon, and the Sims.

You clearly don't have an understanding of how Pokemon works.

Ruby and Sapphire each have half the puzzle. Emerald holds nothing new.

Just like Red and Blue each hold half the puzzle.

While Yellow is in the middle and doesn't do you any extra good.

Pokemon Yellow alone outsold FF7. So their goes your arguement.

1.Plenty of people gave you good reasons. You just ignored them.

2.The battle system is worse then previous iterations, the story is worse then previous iterations and the music is worse? What more could you ask for?

1. Claims without a thorough explanation aren't reasons.

2. You just did it again.

 

 

 

There were plenty of explinations. But fine.

1. The battle system.

They took the worst part of both systems of FF4 and FF7.

They took the super specialized wepaons of FF4... and ratc heted it up to a really high degree.

They then added the problem of Espers but made it even more broken then the Espers were in the form of Materia.

End result, the characters are too customizeable and didn't really have enough to make different characters worth using.

The battles in general were easier, then the previous ones and took no challenge or strategy to beat... I don't believe i level grinded or died ever in the game.

 It's a good thing that they are that customizable, but again this goes back purely to taste.  The advantage of FFVI's characters is that you can use all of them, but at the same time you're being forced to use all of them.  You're not forced in FF7.  Also, you can increase the speed of the ATB in FF7 and put it on active mode if you want a better challenge.  Lastly, if you didn't need to level grind, how is that a bad thing?  If you need to constantly level grind to let your characters survive, that's taking away from the enjoyment of the game.

2. Story

1. The story was just bad. Aerith was killed off WELL before she had any emotional impact. Even FF5 did a better job of making it's dieing character more sympathetic.

How did she not?  You knew a lot about her, you rescue her from the shinra building, she risked her life to save Marlene, you know that she was adopted and her mother died right when that trade off happened, the music went perfectly into effect when she died.  Her music didnt change into the regular Jenova music when you battled Jenova either keeping the players thoughts on Aeris' death and a deep sense of awe.    

Barrett is a walking stereotype who doesn't change, You even say he's a walking stereotype.

Edit (forgot to bold)Wrong again.  You find out why he's the way he is and why he hates the shinra through the Dyne story line.  The change isn't the important thing, but rather the understanding of Barret.  He grew up in Corel, his town was burned down, his wife was killed, and the reason he has a gun arm.  

Tifa is a pair of walking boobs who doesn't change.

Fine, stay in the gray area.

Red is a talking cat who doesn't change.

Red is sort of like Barret, in that it's not the change but the understanding only his storyline is around Seto.

Cait Sith changes, but he's annoying, his sub plot makes zero sense and he feels like he was just added on because they felt the character roster was too shallow.

Cait Sith is sort of a take or leave character, but no one knew that he was a spy.  Plus his betrayal and the kidnapping of Marlene at least makes him interesting in that he's a cowardly scumbag.  Then he later changes and understands why Cloud and the others fight, he didn't understand at first because they weren't getting a reward for their efforts.

Yuffie was a Ninja... that didn't change.

She's a thief who turns on everyone because she wants their materia.  If you choose to go to Wutai you'll find out more about her father and the war, what happened to Wutai in that it became a tourist place after they lost.  And a slightly comedial bit with her father and how things will proceed from there.

VS

FF13 which had like... 14 playavle characters... 11 of which had significant character devleopment. (Mog, Umaro and Gogo being the exceptions.)

FF4's characters all developed too... heck FF5's characters had more plot development.

Sepihroth - His charcter doesn't even make sense. He's in control of Jenova because she has some of his cells in his body.

Shouldn't it be the exact opposite way? Like how Sepiroth can kind of control Cloud for the same reason?

At the end of the day... his plans are the same as Kefkas... but instead of it being insane philosphy of Nihilism to the extreme... it's because some people ran away from giant ass monsters they had no hope of defeating? Cause he thought he was a Cetra... but he wasn't even... he was just some kid who got expermimented on before he was born.

Not only was Sephiroths reason stupid... it was false. He's just a less fun, less successful Kefka.

I believe I explained this when you were  working on this

Edit: About why Sephiroth is the way he is I mean.

3. Music

It's hard to objectivly qualify this one... but I will say that FF6 had way more unique music tracks as i recall.

 

 



This will only take a moment of your time. *steals your watch*

Kasz216 on 12 August 2008

The problem with having full customizability is that you basically never end up using over half the characters. Which mean they have no real attachment to your party outside of the occasional custscene in which they pop up.

How is saying they don't change a grey area? If they don't change they don't change.

You find out their story as they go along... that is still no excuse for them to not develop as charactrs throughout the entire game.

Yuffie. Once again you find out why she is who she is... but she doesn't change at all through the course of the game.

Here is a good example from FF6.

Take of all characters... Gau.

A wild anti-social beast boy... later in the game you find out Gau is who he is because he was abandoned at birth because his mom died in childbirth.

However, Gau changes during the coure of the story still... becoming more and more trusting and civilized... even so much as going through training to embrace his humanity which he once abadoned just as he was.

Or say... Shadow. You learn about Shadow as you go on and why he's an emotionless bastard... you even find out he had a daughter.

yet, you also learn he isn't as emotionless as he suggests, he does things for emotion as the story goes on and he learns to feel again. By the end of the story he is no longer a coward and an emotionless bastard but instead he has accepted his faults and ready to atone.

A lot of characters in FF6 are just more developed both backstory wise, and character development wise.

 

As for explaing Sephiroth... if you did... it wasn't in this thread. His reasons and motivations were just useless and stupid in general, let alone compared to Kefka's. Which were actually fairly philosophic, tied in with a bit of selfishness and narcisism.

You bash Kefka for having no motivation, when really Sephiroth is simply the one who went insane and wanted to destroy everything.



swyggi on 12 August 2008
Kasz216 said:

The problem with having full customizability is that you basically never end up using over half the characters. Which mean they have no real attachment to your party outside of the occasional custscene in which they pop up.

But again, not every body that plays an RPG wants to use everyone.  That's a positive thing to not be forced.  Their attachent comes in the storyline like any character in an rpg.  You can choose to use each of them if you want to and get their most powerful limit breaks.  It's sort of like the battle between usefulness vs. fun-ness (not a word lol). 

How is saying they don't change a grey area? If they don't change they don't change.

?_?

You find out their story as they go along... that is still no excuse for them to not develop as charactrs throughout the entire game.

I explained several of the characters, I'm guessing you were posting this while I was posting it. 



Yuffie. Once again you find out why she is who she is... but she doesn't change at all through the course of the game.



Here is a good example from FF6.

Take of all characters... Gau.

A wild anti-social beast boy... later in the game you find out Gau is who he is because he was abandoned at birth because his mom died in childbirth.

However, Gau changes during the coure of the story still... becoming more and more trusting and civilized... even so much as going through training to embrace his humanity which he once abadoned just as he was.

Or say... Shadow. You learn about Shadow as you go on and why he's an emotionless bastard... you even find out he had a daughter.

yet, you also learn he isn't as emotionless as he suggests, he does things for emotion as the story goes on and he learns to feel again. By the end of the story he is no longer a coward and an emotionless bastard but instead he has accepted his faults and ready to atone.

A lot of characters in FF6 are just more developed both backstory wise, and character development wise.

 

As for explaing Sephiroth... if you did... it wasn't in this thread.  His reasons and motivations were just useless and stupid in general, let alone compared to Kefkas.

 

 



This will only take a moment of your time. *steals your watch*

Kasz216 on 12 August 2008

No... I replied to you... the things you mentioned weren't character development. They were flashbacks.

Character Development happens DURING the story. Not before it.


The only character who you proved had any character development during the actual story was Caith Sith... who I said already had character development... but is annoying, and a completly useless character since he is unimportant in the terms of the overriding story and you don't need to use everybody.


He's pure filler. Which is another problem... most of these characters are filler.

Yuffie, Cait Sith and Red XIII were completely unneeded and really did little to advance the overarching story.

FF7 would of played out the same way if you were only Cloud, Barret, Aerith and Tifa.

Those other characters may as well be ignored or simply left out of the game since you don't need to use them for anything... and all the characters being basically the same give them no point in gameplay.



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MakoInfused on 12 August 2008

I'm sure if it was FFVI that jumped from 2-D to 3-D, the pinnacle of RPGs would be it, but it wasn't FFVI, it was FFVII. To the eyes of the vast majority, FFVII was a huge step for RPGs. Releasing on the PS1 which was really popular atm, and being 1 of a kind, with its spectacular cutscenes/story/summons, it made many people jump to the RPG genre (myself included)

Both games are real masterpieces, FFVI and VII alike, but FFVII had a tid bit more luck :)



Yojimbo on 12 August 2008

Kasz216: I did not even have Gau and Shadow in the ending does not that make them unimportant/filler for many?



 
Kasz216 on 12 August 2008
MakoInfused said:
I'm sure if it was FFVI that jumped from 2-D to 3-D, the pinnacle of RPGs would be it, but it wasn't FFVI, it was FFVII. To the eyes of the vast majority, FFVII was a huge step for RPGs. Releasing on the PS1 which was really popular atm, and being 1 of a kind, with its spectacular cutscenes/story/summons, it made many people jump to the RPG genre (myself included)

Both games are real masterpieces, FFVI and VII alike, but FFVII had a tid bit more luck :)

I disagree....

also it wasn't luck.  It was a huge marketing budget.

The real loser in the whole thing was Chrono Trigger...

Which used the original ideas of FF7.

If Chrono Trigger would of been FF7... and had that massive advertising budget... FF8-12 would of been a lot better.



Darc Requiem on 12 August 2008
forevercloud3000 said:
Darc Requiem said:
forevercloud3000 said:
Darc Requiem said:
Wow, FFVII? Its not one of the best game in the series, let alone the genre or ever. The story had more holes in it that a warehouse full of swiss cheese. Sephiroth is one the most overrated and paper thin main antagonist in RPG history. The graphics and sound were worse than FFVI on SNES. The gameplay dumbed down to a level just above Final Fantasy Mystic Quest. I thought this was joke thread at first but sadly I was mistaken.

 

I was thinking ur post was the joke im afraid. If you are going to spout a blasphemous(and might i add, blatent flamebait) opinion here then you could at least find the courage to put a full in depth opionion as to why it is so bad.

Otherwise I am forced to think you are just trying to get a rise out of me, so begone you.....

 

No I've just get tired of a veritable novel each time some fanboy touts how great Final Fantasy VII is. As Garcian stated, I get tired typing out point by point analysis to a post with little value to begin with. Blatent flamebait? You original post practically insulted anyone with a differing opinion. You may want to look in the mirror. All that stated, I guess I can do an abbrievated run down of why Final Fantasy VII continues to be the most overrated game of all time.

Graphics

Final Fantasy VII's graphics were poor even at the time of release. It followed the CG background polygonal character style presentation that RE made famous but it just did it poorly. The characters were low poly and lacked detail. The whole point of the static backgrounds was to render more detailed characters. The best part of the in-game graphics was the battle scene graphics and they lacked detail while running at a blistering 15fps. Even SCEA knew the graphics were poor because the games advertisments showed endless amounts of FMV.

While not the best graphics by any standard it was still pretty good for its time. The blocky nature of the characters made a certain plush doll like charm. SS used that to there advantage by making them do funny looking things like squats and clouds infamous bulb hand shake. You seem to rip on the art direction of FFVII but not on the countless FFs before it with subpar sprites and shallow art direction.

Resident Evil 1 was released before FFVII and the characters models were far more detailed. The Popeye arms were a result poor modeling. Even in prior FF titles when they had different overworld and battle sprites the overall artstyle remained the same. FFVII is the only game in the series in which the overworld style doesn't match the overall style of the game. Not to mention they clashed with the realistically rendered CG backgrounds.

Audio

Despite the move to CD, Final Fantasy VII's audio quality was inferior to that of Final Fantasy VI. I don't know how they managed to have a lower sampling rate on the MIDI toons of FFVII but they did. Even the hype filled reviews from 1997 remake on this. You think they could find the space for some redbook audio on a multiple CD game. There is no excuse for a 3Mb cartridge title to have better music than a 3 CD game.

I am no audio wiz but I tend to find little wrong with FFVII's sound. I loved the music to DEATH and adored the battle themes too. One Winged Angel and Aeris's Theme are the most popular out of any of the FF music selections. Is their a particular sound effect or song that had a problem with you?

I was talking about the sample quality. The sample quality was lower than FFVI.

Gameplay

The gameplay of Final Fantasy VII not only awful, it was insulting. The party size was reduced from four to three and each characters individual skills were identical outside of their limit breaks. The materia system allowed the strongest melee characters, Cloud for example, to wield the best magic spells and made putting any character with caster friendly stats in the party pointless. The Esper system of FFVI was similar but each characters had unique abilities. You had to build you party around each characters strengths and that allowed for some actual strategy to take place during battles. Not to mention the equipment system was reduce to just a weapon, a bangle, and an accessory.

Old vets keep trying to rip on FFVII for being fully customizable. So what if they did not have job specific abilities. Then you simply must choose your party out of favor and not necessity. Is that really so bad? FFVIII did it, FFX did it, and FFXII did it. Square was trying to give americans what they wanted, we tend to emphasize customization(failed in FFVIII tho).

If you like your characters to be only differentiated by their appearance, so be it.

Story

Final Fantasy VII's story was a joke. Tifa knew that Cloud was lying from the beginning of the game. Yet she didn't tell Barrett or Avalanche about it. Why she risk the lives of all of her comrades by putting them in the hands of Cloud. She knew he was unstable, but she didn't tell anyone. That makes no sense what so ever. Sephiroth's reasons for going "psycho" were weak at best. He read about how he was implanted with Jenova cells in the womb....so what. His mother, Lucretia, was still alive. His attachment to Jenova made no sense at all. Not to mention the various points in which he "controls" Cloud. Whether it be him standing there like a doofus when Aerith gets run through, assaulting Aerith, giving Sephiroth the black materia. Cloud wasn't actually a clone of Sephirothh so him being controlled by him made little sense. I am not going even get into how he manages to survive Mako poisoning twice or he magically recovers right after Zack is gunned down by the Shinra.

Tifa had the shit knocked out of her if u remember correctly and had partial amnesia. She was fuzzy on the happenings of that time frame and just went along with whatever cloud said, even tho she felt it was a bit off. And if you watched Advent Children or Played FFVII Crisis Core they give a little more insight to the meaning of "CLONE". When the term clone is used in FFVII it does not mean a replication of mind and body per say, more of a replication of power. Cloud inherited the same kind of power that sephiroth wielded. Sephiroth could control Cloud becuz Cloud possessed JENOVA cells. Anyone or thing that have them can be controlled by Sephiroth, hence y he took the Jenova Cells to the center of the earth(Gaia?). He wanted to wield the entire planet. After reading ur post I dont think you fully understand the story as well as you might think you do...

Let get this straight I need to watch movie that came out 9 years FFVII and play a game that was released 10 years after FFVII to understand the story. You don't see a problem with that?

Miscellaneous

SCEA actually spoils the biggest surprise in the game, Aerith's death, in the FMV filled ad campaign that launched the game.

 

 

Thank you for coming back with a REAL opinion instead of a one liner which looked to be aimed at me, the OPster. I think you simply might have missed a few key plot points in this one, hense the reason you feel the story, gameplay, visuals is broken. If you were to give the game a second chance I think you might change ur mind...

I played the game when it came out in 1997 when I was huge Square fanboy and didn't like it. My best friend a bought the game for me on PC on the cheap a couple years later and I still didn't like it. I don't like game. I don't care for the gameplay, don't like the story, and don't like the majority of the cast.

 



Kasz216 on 12 August 2008
Yojimbo said:

Kasz216: I did not even have Gau and Shadow in the ending does not that make them unimportant/filler for many?

Not at all they both play important parts in the game.

Shadow is the only one in the party that can really emphathize with Terra.  Also Shadow has a profound effect on the way the characters Strago and Relm are looked at.   Also his part in the Floating Island would of been hardpressed to be replaced by someone else.

While Gau has the Rage command which is a completely unique and vastly different ability in battle.