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Forums - Gaming Discussion - How does the PS3 remain as the only unhacked system? And for how long?

kergeten said:
colonelstubbs said:
I personally hate piracy. It just makes the rest of us suffer because we have to pay more. Damn pirates

 

No, it makes poor people enjoy something that would otherwise have been impossible, you try paying 100 dollars for a game when your income is 400 dollars, you either literally don’t pay your taxes or don't feed your children so you can play games, or you pirate..

The paradox for me here is that I'm working my way towards becoming a game designer, but that would have been impossible if I didn't pirate, thanks to piracy Ive managed to play all the great classics from NES to PS2, and now have plenty of expericne with all genres, compared to some of my team mates, who haven't pirated much and are now almost crippled game culture wise.

 

Dear friend,

Life is difficult. There will always be things unreachable for some people. If you don´t have the money to buy something, that doesnt give you the rights to buy an "alternative". Its very sad, but thats just the way it is. If you buy a pirate game, you are a theft, you are stealing. You are killing the people that make games.

If you dont have the money to buy all the gmanes you want, then ou will have to look for another way, but in the good sense.

In this world, poor people can´t have a PS3. Im sorry, but that´s it. I cant have a ferrari, so i need to be happy with another car. If poor people can´t have a PS3, the they have to look for another way to live happy.

 

 

 

 

 



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@Lord N

Just because those file sharing software isn't around during the dreamcast day doesn't mean other source of file sharing are not around.

most people use 56k??? I don't know about place where you live but at that time people that I know are already using dsl and cable modem at an affordable price. even with a 56k modem, it only take about 2 days to finish download a DC game. a 56k modem will download approximately 12meg of data per hour if my memory is correct. Most DC games is around 200meg for the ripped version. That still beats paying $50 per game.

CD burner don't cost $300 around that time, you got it wrong. DVD burner is the one cost $300.

most CD burner cost around $70-100 around that time, and a 50cdr spindle cost $10-25 or sometime free after rebate when on sale.



Geldorn said:
Lord N said:
HappySqurriel said:
Lord N said:
HappySqurriel said:

 

 

 

 

Tif this hackability doesn't kill software sales (as it did with the Dreamcast and PSP) it can actually be a good thing

 

Those two consoles being hacked had nothing to do with their software sales being poor.

I think you might be able to argue that these consoles being hacked wasn't the only reason the had poor(er) software sales, or (possibly) that the consoles being hacked wasn't the main reason they had poor(er) software sales but the fact is that piracy will impact software sales.

If your system is difficult enough to hack that it requires some sort of hardware modification that will void the waranty 75% (or greater) of people who might consider stealing a game won't because they don't want to risk the money they spent on their system. On the other hand, if your console can easily be hacked using a 'softmod' (like the PSP), or no modification at all (like the Dreamcast), then many consumers who would normally buy games will end up stealing games and (potentially worse) many of the consumers who end up buying your system do so because it is easy to steal games ...

Now the PSP has other reasons software sales are so poor (mainly that its media functionality attracts people who buy the system with no intention of playing games on it) but when you have sold more units than the PS3 and XBox 360 combined and sell approximately 1/2 the software of either system (and the system has a reputation for rampant piracy) it is fair to conclude that piracy is having some impact on software sales.

Let's look at the Dreamcast first....

1) When it launched in 1998/1999, the vast majority of people were still on dial-up. This was a time when it could take several hours to download a 3MB mp3 file, and several days to download a Dreamcast game.

2) File sharing apps like Kazaa, Limewire, Emule, Bittorent, etc didn't exist at the time, so in addition to Dreamcast isos taking longer to download, they'd have been harder to find.

3) As is with the price of Blu-Ray recordable drives and Blu-Ray media, CD burners and recordable CDs were rather expensive at that point in time. Most PCs shipped with just a CD-ROM or maybe a DVD-ROM, and an 8X CD burner at that point in time cost in upwards of $300, and the media wasn't cheap either.

The Dreamcast itself never sold that well to begin with after launch, and neither the system nor the games had any chance at all once the PS2 was announced, which immediately killed them.

The PSP....

1) You've already mentioned this, but it was marketed more as a multimedia device than it was as a portable gaming device, and that's exactly how people bought it. I wouldn't be surprised if half of all PSP owners are using them as MP3 players and portable video players.

2) It also didn't help that there was a rather large game drought until mid-2006. Even I, a proud PSP owner, have to admit that all the banter on the internet regarding "THE PSP HAS NO GAMES!!!!" was not entirely unfounded, and rather true.

3)It had(and still does, to an extent) too many PS2 ports and other such games that would have been much more appropriate if they were on a home console. It looks to me as though Sony and third parties, in an attempt to exploit the technical specs of the PSP, failed to take into account what kind of games work best with a handheld.

4) The PSP, while having a lot of good games, doesn't have a lot of "must have" titles. It doesn't really have a Brain Age, Nintendogs, Mario Kart, NSMB, Pokemon, etc.

5) The cost of the games themselves. $40 is quite steep when compared to the $30 launch price of most DS games.

Yes, people have and are still buying the PSP because it's rather easy to get games without paying for them, but that has no effect because if this weren't the case, then these people wouldn't have bought the PSP at all, much less the games. Having to mess with the hardware isn't a deterrent either as the mod scenes for both the PS2 and the Xbox were rather large and neither of those saw such low software sales. Finally, it's even easier to play games for free on the DS considering that flash carts have been available on Amazon for the bleedin' longest.

To sum things up, "piracy" is just a scape goat that the industry, analysts, and other people who follow sales data use to explain poor sales. I'm not denying at all that there are people who were going to buy a game, downloaded them, and then didn't buy them because they, in effect, already had them, but when you look at the big picture, this is de minimus.

If the effect on the industry was even the least bit serious, then nearly every record label would be filing for bankruptcy considering that it's possible to download an artist's entire discography in mere hours at the most. Itunes should have also crashed and burned, because why would people buy mp3's when they can use P2P to get them for free?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Last time I checked the music industry was in big trouble, massive restructuring all around, fusion after fusion, labels vanishing left and right, CD sales dropping like mad, etc.

All this started before iTunes started I might add.

Coincedentaly, DVD sales started dropping just around the time it became economical and simple to burn copies and still haven't recovered.

 

I think you are vastly underestimating the effects of piracy on developers (of any form of entertainment).

The music industry saw its highest sales when Napster was at its peak.

It's subsequent drop in sales were a result of a) the economy being in a recession, b) the RIAA demonizing its fanbase as "thieves" and "pirates", and c) the record labels suing said fanbase. Those things have hurt them far more than P2P ever could.

The drop in DVD sales can be blamed on Netflix and more cable and satellite options.

 



 

Consoles owned: Saturn, Dreamcast, PS1, PS2, PSP, DS, PS3

Pk9394 said:
@Lord N

Just because those file sharing software isn't around during the dreamcast day doesn't mean other source of file sharing are not around.

most people use 56k??? I don't know about place where you live but at that time people that I know are already using dsl and cable modem at an affordable price. even with a 56k modem, it only take about 2 days to finish download a DC game. a 56k modem will download approximately 12meg of data per hour if my memory is correct. Most DC games is around 200meg for the ripped version. That still beats paying $50 per game.

CD burner don't cost $300 around that time, you got it wrong. DVD burner is the one cost $300.

most CD burner cost around $70-100 around that time, and a 50cdr spindle cost $10-25 or sometime free after rebate when on sale.

Umm, broadband was nowhere near prevalent in 1998/1999. This is just common knowledge. That didn't happen until long after the Dreamcast was good and dead(2001 and on). Even today, 56K is still prevalent in some areas because broadband companies can't/won't run a line out that far.

CD burners did not come down to $70 dollars until after 2000. They were still over $60 at Wal-Mart in the year 2004. DVD burners sure as hell didn't cost $300 in 1998. A stand alone DVD player at that time cost more than that, so common sense should tell you that a recordable drive would cost more than that. DVD burners were still over $300 in 2003, and didn't drop below $100 until 2004.

 

 



 

Consoles owned: Saturn, Dreamcast, PS1, PS2, PSP, DS, PS3

man, those huge quotes are making my eyes burn...

OT: People don;t hack the PS3 because 1) It takes waaay too long to download a 20GB game and the amount of money you'd have to pay for an internet connection that CAN download that amount of info in less than forever would be far more than it would cost to simply go out and buy the stupid game. 2) Sony let's you run linux on the thing, which can and will always be able to do 99% of the stuff you would ever want to do on a hacked console; with NO worries about having to re-hack the thing after every FW update. (and with the current rate of PS3 FW updates, re-hacking the console would probably take up a fair amount of your programming time...)



Not trying to be a fanboy. Of course, it's hard when you own the best console eve... dang it

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Blu-ray I suppose, and the constant firmware updates.



End of Year prediction:

wii: 37 m

360: 24 m

PS3: 20 m

Viper1 said:
Endgadget reported it was hacked just yesterday.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/07/27/ps3-homebrew-capabilities-inevitably-leads-to-pong/

Quoted for those that don't bother reading other posts.



Dolla Dolla said:
Viper1 said:
Endgadget reported it was hacked just yesterday.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/07/27/ps3-homebrew-capabilities-inevitably-leads-to-pong/

Quoted for those that don't bother reading other posts.

heh. yeah, gotta love those people...

anyway, even though it is possible to hack the PS3, there's currently almost no reason to do so.

 



Not trying to be a fanboy. Of course, it's hard when you own the best console eve... dang it

kergeten said:
colonelstubbs said:
I personally hate piracy. It just makes the rest of us suffer because we have to pay more. Damn pirates

 

No, it makes poor people enjoy something that would otherwise have been impossible, you try paying 100 dollars for a game when your income is 400 dollars, you either literally don’t pay your taxes or don't feed your children so you can play games, or you pirate..

The paradox for me here is that I'm working my way towards becoming a game designer, but that would have been impossible if I didn't pirate, thanks to piracy Ive managed to play all the great classics from NES to PS2, and now have plenty of expericne with all genres, compared to some of my team mates, who haven't pirated much and are now almost crippled game culture wise.

 

Congratulations, you just rationalized theft.  Here's a better idea ... dont steal, and dont try to live outside your means.

 



Bethesda's Todd Howard "if install base really mattered, we'd all make board games, because there are a lot of tables."

Feel free to add me ...

PSN ID - jedson328
XBL Gamertag - jedson328

 

jedson328 said:
kergeten said:
colonelstubbs said:
I personally hate piracy. It just makes the rest of us suffer because we have to pay more. Damn pirates

 

No, it makes poor people enjoy something that would otherwise have been impossible, you try paying 100 dollars for a game when your income is 400 dollars, you either literally don’t pay your taxes or don't feed your children so you can play games, or you pirate..

The paradox for me here is that I'm working my way towards becoming a game designer, but that would have been impossible if I didn't pirate, thanks to piracy Ive managed to play all the great classics from NES to PS2, and now have plenty of expericne with all genres, compared to some of my team mates, who haven't pirated much and are now almost crippled game culture wise.

 

Congratulations, you just rationalized theft. Here's a better idea ... dont steal, and dont try to live outside your means.

 

 

It isn't theft. Theft occurs when physical property is taken and owner no longer has it, such as stealing a game from a store.

Anyway, I don't see anything wrong with someone downloading digital media for their own personal use.

 

 



 

Consoles owned: Saturn, Dreamcast, PS1, PS2, PSP, DS, PS3