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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - 2 New Star Ocean 4 Screens + Artwork

Pristine20 on 03 July 2008
Bingoo said:
Its sad all the sony fanboys are throwing riots because people like SO more then FF. FF will most likely be a fantastic RPG this gen, but you cant guerentee that it will be the best this gen.

Microsoft fanboys should stop saying its greater then FF just cause SO is exclusive to their console. If its your opinion because you really do like it more then thats fine.


Personally? I like FF series more, though SO is fantastic. but if FF 13 sucks monkey balls like FF 12 then SO any day of the weak and then some.

I'm not throwing "riots" because people claim to like SO more than FF. Its because people are damning FF12 for things that SO3 did worse and praising a series they've never even looked at before as "the second coming of Jesus" because the disc comes  in a green case first this gen. You just claimed the same thing. Why is SO3 better than FF12? Give me reasons and I'll prove every last one of them wrong.

 



"Dr. Tenma, according to you, lives are equal. That's why I live today. But you must have realised it by now...the only thing people are equal in is death"---Johann Liebert (MONSTER)

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives"---Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler

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Godot on 03 July 2008

Well, regardless if anyone prefer SO or FF, no one can deny that FF is more popular so there's no way point telling how you think FFXII sucked or FFVII is overrated will change anything. So, let's discuss the graphics of those screenshots.

I think they look good but I really don't like the art direction for the background and the huge monster. The character models are great (even though not original but we barely see any original characters in RPGs nowadays) but it might be because those in SO3 were terrible. They looked so unreal.



How many cups of darkness have I drank over the years? Even I don't know...

 

sc94597 on 03 July 2008
Pristine20 said:
sc94597 said:
Pristine20 said:
sc94597 said:
FF used to be my favorite rpg series, but after they made XI an mmo, and XII horrible(imo) I don't have to much hopes for FFXIII. Now I'm finding alot of rpgs that are better than my favorite FF(VI) and I think the series is overrated. Especially by people who never played an FF game. Also I don't like the direction the series is taking, they are focusing too much on the visuals, and characters and forgetting the game play a lot of the time. FFXII had almost nothing that would distinguish it as a final fantasy and I really hope they go back to the roots with FFXIV. Also why is shiva a motorcycle? Seriously. I hope the series does become as good as I use to think it was again. As for star ocean, I never played it, but this does look like it will be quality, and It COULD be better than XIII to some. Aslo at the person who said " there are many action-adventures to play other than zelda. There aren't any that play the same. Okami is similar to zelda, but different, metroid prime 3 is really different from zelda, Uncharted the same, and GTAIV also the same. So there isn't anywhere else where you could get the zelda experience, but there are many rpgs that take the FF style. So I think you should use another example.

 

So when they make one that you don't like, the series becomes overrated regardless of how many people still like it? Its okay to like something else but putting down FF for it is unacceptable. You blame FF because other RPG's copy its style? Its seems to me that they're copying its style because of its appel thus making it an excellent series just like after gears introduce the cover system, it was copied left and right. You're quick to damn FF but ready to praise Star Ocean that you've never played because of two screenshots?

Make one I don't like? Let me see. These are my opinions on each of the gams since the Snes. 

IV= Exellent but there is better.

V= Never played too much into it, but I liked it.

VI- My favorite, and in my top ten rpgs, but I've played better.

VII- Average imo, and the most overated of the series.

VIII- It was pretty bad compared to others in the series, but still ok.

IX- Excellent game, but still better.

X- Good.

XI- I only played it once, but hated that they made a main series FF an mmo.

XII- Horrible, battle system, story, and left out most of what made FF an FF game.

Now tell me that based on my opinions I don't think its overrated. When people say FFXIII will be the best rpg this gen, and nothing will come even close because its a main series final fantasy, that isn't overrating? They act like nothing can come even close to it, but there are many games that have and surpassed it. Also did you read my post at all? I said star ocean looks like it could be the better  game to some people and seems to have alot of effort put into it. Is that praising it?

 

 

but the keyword is that you claim FF is overrated yet praise Star Ocean THAT YOU NEVER PLAYED  because you saw 2 screens of the next iteration.  You failed to address that. Since you chose to judge by the last iteration of FF, I'll use the same yard stick. If you condemn FF12, I'm sorry I don't see the redeeming values in SO3. Prove them to me and I'll rest my case. It'll take you a long tome though because you'll have to play through SO3 like I've done. 

 Nobody has shown why star ocean would suddenly trump FF. Its all in the green case as things stand.

Please tell m how you came to that conclusion. I said for some it could be better than FFXIII I never said the game would be better. ALso I'm saying it is overrated because half the sony fans are telling everybody that FFXIII will be the best rpg this gen, just because its a FF game, and I clearly don't agree with them that all FF games are amazing.

@ Your most recent reply to me. When did I say they were the same? I said that every FF has some aspects that are the same, and that is what makes in an FF game. XII didn't have that or didn't have as much of it.

 



Sansui on 03 July 2008
Pristine20 said:
JaggedSac said:
Looks like 360 grabbing up all these jrps is causing quite a stir.

 

I really don't care personally how many RPGs the 360 gets. Its the fact that people who claim to love JRPGs are quick to condemn the series that defined the genre thats ticking me. The bigger problem is that most of it is driven by console fanboyism.

Sorry Torillian, I couldn't take it anymore!

I don't know, seems like fanboyism to me to disregard all these rpgs just becuase they're for the 360, and unilaterally prefer FF instead. 

I've played hundreds of rpgs, and the snes, ps1, and ps2 all have many of my favorites.  I still consider FFIV and FFVI to be masterpieces in the genre, even Tactics to an extent, but there has been a marked downward spiral in the qualities that made their earlier games great.

Pretty much all the games after VI have suffered from much weaker character and story development, poor dialogue, overbearing, awkward religious themes that really don't work for the plots (FFX really went over the top.  I felt like I was being pummeled by aluminum sluggers every minute of playing that game), and in some cases some pretty crappy combat systems - the gimmick character/enemy matchup for fast/piercing/flying etc, with only 3 party members made combat repetitive, unchallenging, and boring.  Some people liked FFXII's mmo style combat system, but I felt it did not improve the game at all.

My real problem?  Like I said, I've played hundreds of rpgs, many of them deserving of attention they never got.  Final Fantasy continues to sell extremely well no matter how mediocre the game, and press reviews give them 9's and 10's while ignoring 'lesser' titles that have superior story and gameplay.  Fanboys hoist the name Final Fantasy like it's some kind of amazing prize, but these days, they're no better or worse than most of what's already on the market.

I tell you, I feel the same way about Halo 3.  I felt it was a pretty average game that didn't deserve 9's and 10's.  Halo fanboys annoy me too, just like the mindless Final Fantasy fanboys that have never played an RPG outside that series, but will tell you over and over that they are the greatest RPGs ever made.

I'm excited about Star Ocean.  It's not my favorite series, but development looks like it's shaping up pretty well.  It might turn out to be a mediocre game, but in the meantime, I think we have the right to be excited about it, just as you have the right to be excited about FF13 'proven' basis.

I'm a jrpg fanboy.  Not a console fanboy.  Please take your Final Fantasy agenda outta here :P

 
mrstickball on 03 July 2008

FYI:

Never played SO3, as I actually do not own a PS2. My girlfriend owns a PS2, so if I buy any PS2 RPGs, it has to be for her (I bought ToL as a cheap primer for ToV).

I've played SO1, and IMO, it was an incredibly great SNES RPG - one of the best, easily. Will probably get SO2 and 3 as a primer for SO4 at some time in the future.

My whole reasoning behind the "who needs FF" wasn't a bash against FF, but a comment to show that other JRPGs are coming along nicely, that it is probable that SO4 could be awesome, and trump FF (and for me, Kingdom Hearts did that in many ways).

Back to the industrial/magical revolution issues I brought up:



But the "industrial/magic revolution" may have become a core theme in FF. However, FF is one of the most flexible series so this might change. Also, Mass Effect shouldn't be compared to FF because WRPG and JRPG are very different genres. I don't know anything about phantasy star so I won't speak for that one. But in regards to FF9, to me, it should be called FF:crystal something and should have been on n64 because the art style fits that description and FFXI should have been called FF:MMO. Those are the final fantasies that are the most questionable from their appearance.

I've only played tales of the abyss among the tales series and I find it funny that people who hate FF12's battle system love this series because the gameplay was frankly almost reduced to a button-mash fest. The characters moved awkwardly in battle and sometimes you couldn't understand what you were targeting. The A.I. also sucked which is why I greatly appreciate FF12's gambit system. I give it credit for the story though...it sure was better than FF12's

From the look of things, it seems like the new traditional FFs are just not to your liking so you probably should just "skip" them but its not necessary to bash them because as I'll reiterate, we can hopefully all agree that this series defined what a JRPG should be and the production that goes into development of these games are unrivaled.



1. If you haven't played any entry from the orig. Phantasy Star series (the non MMOs), you shouldn't comment on the industrial/magical issues I bring up. Phantasy Star was a far superior series to most every Final Fantasy, and was Sci-Fi too. FFVI and onward began to incorporate some of the elements of sci-fi into their series, but to me, it reduced the overall taste, and world of what was the FF series (and I've played the vast majority of them).

2. To be fair, FFXII involves no button mashing whatsoever. I'm in the minority (it seems) that loved FFXII due to the battle system, and hate the idea of Square not optimizing that battle system into something better.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

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Riachu on 03 July 2008
mrstickball said:
FYI:

Never played SO3, as I actually do not own a PS2. My girlfriend owns a PS2, so if I buy any PS2 RPGs, it has to be for her (I bought ToL as a cheap primer for ToV).

I've played SO1, and IMO, it was an incredibly great SNES RPG - one of the best, easily. Will probably get SO2 and 3 as a primer for SO4 at some time in the future.

My whole reasoning behind the "who needs FF" wasn't a bash against FF, but a comment to show that other JRPGs are coming along nicely, that it is probable that SO4 could be awesome, and trump FF (and for me, Kingdom Hearts did that in many ways).

Back to the industrial/magical revolution issues I brought up:



But the "industrial/magic revolution" may have become a core theme in FF. However, FF is one of the most flexible series so this might change. Also, Mass Effect shouldn't be compared to FF because WRPG and JRPG are very different genres. I don't know anything about phantasy star so I won't speak for that one. But in regards to FF9, to me, it should be called FF:crystal something and should have been on n64 because the art style fits that description and FFXI should have been called FF:MMO. Those are the final fantasies that are the most questionable from their appearance.

I've only played tales of the abyss among the tales series and I find it funny that people who hate FF12's battle system love this series because the gameplay was frankly almost reduced to a button-mash fest. The characters moved awkwardly in battle and sometimes you couldn't understand what you were targeting. The A.I. also sucked which is why I greatly appreciate FF12's gambit system. I give it credit for the story though...it sure was better than FF12's

From the look of things, it seems like the new traditional FFs are just not to your liking so you probably should just "skip" them but its not necessary to bash them because as I'll reiterate, we can hopefully all agree that this series defined what a JRPG should be and the production that goes into development of these games are unrivaled.



1. If you haven't played any entry from the orig. Phantasy Star series (the non MMOs), you shouldn't comment on the industrial/magical issues I bring up. Phantasy Star was a far superior series to most every Final Fantasy, and was Sci-Fi too. FFVI and onward began to incorporate some of the elements of sci-fi into their series, but to me, it reduced the overall taste, and world of what was the FF series (and I've played the vast majority of them).

2. To be fair, FFXII involves no button mashing whatsoever. I'm in the minority (it seems) that loved FFXII due to the battle system, and hate the idea of Square not optimizing that battle system into something better.

I think the number of people who loved or hated FFXII is 50:50

 



 

http://www.youtube.com/user/InvaderZimGuy1?feature=mhum

memory2zack on 03 July 2008
Videogirl said:

I wasn't moaning about RPG weapons, but the resemblance, and the obvious lack of imagination of Tri Ace developpers regarding main characters. They could at least have chosen a different hairstyle.

 

 

What are you talking about? The character design is different in both games. And the guy from IU you showed is not even the main character.



Pristine20 on 03 July 2008
Sansui said:
Pristine20 said:
JaggedSac said:
Looks like 360 grabbing up all these jrps is causing quite a stir.

 

I really don't care personally how many RPGs the 360 gets. Its the fact that people who claim to love JRPGs are quick to condemn the series that defined the genre thats ticking me. The bigger problem is that most of it is driven by console fanboyism.

Sorry Torillian, I couldn't take it anymore!

I don't know, seems like fanboyism to me to disregard all these rpgs just becuase they're for the 360, and unilaterally prefer FF instead. 

I've played hundreds of rpgs, and the snes, ps1, and ps2 all have many of my favorites.  I still consider FFIV and FFVI to be masterpieces in the genre, even Tactics to an extent, but there has been a marked downward spiral in the qualities that made their earlier games great.

Pretty much all the games after VI have suffered from much weaker character and story development, poor dialogue, overbearing, awkward religious themes that really don't work for the plots (FFX really went over the top.  I felt like I was being pummeled by aluminum sluggers every minute of playing that game), and in some cases some pretty crappy combat systems - the gimmick character/enemy matchup for fast/piercing/flying etc, with only 3 party members made combat repetitive, unchallenging, and boring.  Some people liked FFXII's mmo style combat system, but I felt it did not improve the game at all.

My real problem?  Like I said, I've played hundreds of rpgs, many of them deserving of attention they never got.  Final Fantasy continues to sell extremely well no matter how mediocre the game, and press reviews give them 9's and 10's while ignoring 'lesser' titles that have superior story and gameplay.  Fanboys hoist the name Final Fantasy like it's some kind of amazing prize, but these days, they're no better or worse than most of what's already on the market.

I tell you, I feel the same way about Halo 3.  I felt it was a pretty average game that didn't deserve 9's and 10's.  Halo fanboys annoy me too, just like the mindless Final Fantasy fanboys that have never played an RPG outside that series, but will tell you over and over that they are the greatest RPGs ever made.

I'm excited about Star Ocean.  It's not my favorite series, but development looks like it's shaping up pretty well.  It might turn out to be a mediocre game, but in the meantime, I think we have the right to be excited about it, just as you have the right to be excited about FF13 'proven' basis.

I'm a jrpg fanboy.  Not a console fanboy.  Please take your Final Fantasy agenda outta here :P

 

So you admit that certain FFs were your favorite JRPGs just like almost anyone  who's played JRPGs. You certainly haven't read all my post so I'll reiterate. I don't think I've played as many JRPGs as you because I started with the ps1 gen not snes and I got into them late into the ps1 gen. as a result, I've missed many ps1 gems that are ridiculously expensive now so I have to collect carefully. I'm actually currently playing "legend of Dragoon", one of such games I missed.

I would consider myself a JRPG fanboy as well. As I said before, I'll also purchase SO4 IF it comes to ps3 because I usually stick to only ONE console until very late in the console gen. I chose the ps3 for reasons stated in my sig. If I hadn't, I won't be playing LOD right now. I'm thus forced to defend the ps3 because I'm IN TOO DEEP.

Now that thats out of the way, I have no FF agenda. Hate 'em or love 'em is up to you.  Won't change the experience for me. I even said I preferred SMT:DDS & DDS2 to FF12 but it still doesn't stop FF12 from being an excellent game. Its just disgusting for people to claim that SO3>>FF12 which reeks of green case fanboyism to me. I've asked for proof but received none. I'm not saying people shouldn't be excited about SO4 but saying SO>>FF especially when some people haven't even played any JRPGs or any SO for that matter is baseless fanboy-heavy BS.

 



"Dr. Tenma, according to you, lives are equal. That's why I live today. But you must have realised it by now...the only thing people are equal in is death"---Johann Liebert (MONSTER)

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives"---Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler

Torillian on 03 July 2008

Sigh.....see what happened Stick, you could've had a nice quiet thread. Sure maybe this would've happened anyway, but that's no reason to invite it from the get go. I see far too many threads about news that just add a little jab in at the competition for no reason. I apologize if that wasn't your intent, but just looking at the OP you'd have to understand why some might think that way.

In essence, colorful commentary is great, but if you want your thread to stay on topic and not explode into fanboy arguments then just report the news and leave it at that.



...

pearljammer on 03 July 2008
Sansui said:
Pristine20 said:
JaggedSac said:
Looks like 360 grabbing up all these jrps is causing quite a stir.

 

I really don't care personally how many RPGs the 360 gets. Its the fact that people who claim to love JRPGs are quick to condemn the series that defined the genre thats ticking me. The bigger problem is that most of it is driven by console fanboyism.

Sorry Torillian, I couldn't take it anymore!

I don't know, seems like fanboyism to me to disregard all these rpgs just becuase they're for the 360, and unilaterally prefer FF instead. 

I've played hundreds of rpgs, and the snes, ps1, and ps2 all have many of my favorites.  I still consider FFIV and FFVI to be masterpieces in the genre, even Tactics to an extent, but there has been a marked downward spiral in the qualities that made their earlier games great.

Pretty much all the games after VI have suffered from much weaker character and story development, poor dialogue, overbearing, awkward religious themes that really don't work for the plots (FFX really went over the top.  I felt like I was being pummeled by aluminum sluggers every minute of playing that game), and in some cases some pretty crappy combat systems - the gimmick character/enemy matchup for fast/piercing/flying etc, with only 3 party members made combat repetitive, unchallenging, and boring.  Some people liked FFXII's mmo style combat system, but I felt it did not improve the game at all.

My real problem?  Like I said, I've played hundreds of rpgs, many of them deserving of attention they never got.  Final Fantasy continues to sell extremely well no matter how mediocre the game, and press reviews give them 9's and 10's while ignoring 'lesser' titles that have superior story and gameplay.  Fanboys hoist the name Final Fantasy like it's some kind of amazing prize, but these days, they're no better or worse than most of what's already on the market.

I tell you, I feel the same way about Halo 3.  I felt it was a pretty average game that didn't deserve 9's and 10's.  Halo fanboys annoy me too, just like the mindless Final Fantasy fanboys that have never played an RPG outside that series, but will tell you over and over that they are the greatest RPGs ever made.

I'm excited about Star Ocean.  It's not my favorite series, but development looks like it's shaping up pretty well.  It might turn out to be a mediocre game, but in the meantime, I think we have the right to be excited about it, just as you have the right to be excited about FF13 'proven' basis.

I'm a jrpg fanboy.  Not a console fanboy.  Please take your Final Fantasy agenda outta here :P

 

 

I agree with you on many levels here but you imply that it is almost blasphemous to be both a JRPG fanboy and prefer the FF series to all others. Like you, I have played well over a hundred RPG's easily, but the ones that have stuck to me the most and have gone back to replay more than any others are the FF's. I understand people get upset when a marketleader consistantly overshadows other great peices of work, but that should never have ay bearing on the series itself.

Same thing happens with music... there will always be better musicians out there, but does that take anything away from, say, The Beatles? Sure you may have found some club band that were better than them, does that take anything away from us 'mindless Beatle fanboys'? I really do hate that elitist type attitude (not that I think you are, I don't). - not the best analogy, I know.

Any how: jrpg fanboy + FF fanboy = possible

And of course, you have just as much right to be excited about SO4 as many are FFXIII. After all, it simply comes down to opinion and preference.