12 didn't suck bro. Lemme tell ya, and this is what I use irl to talk to FF haters about, and don't take anything personally, I'm drunk, and I honestly don't hold anything against people who didn't like XII and VIII.

I have inside information on this subject. At first, I also hated FFXII, FFTactics, Vagrant Story, and FFVIII.

Then, after a long time had passed, I found myself going back to them just to give them another day in the sun, and this time, going strictly by a guide to finish the games(or multiple guides to be more precise).

I found that in all of those games, you needed to play a certain way from the very start to get that feeling of power and level increasing that you found in other games. Once you learned how the games were meant to be played(which I didn't learn in any of my initial playthroughs) they actually have very complex and rewarding battle systems.

For instance, the first step in VIII begins before you even head to the cave to defeat Infrit, where you should stand around outside and draw 100 fires, 100 cures, and 100 blizzards, which you can then junction to make yourself much more powerful. The purpose of FFVIII is basically to do limit breaks for every move in combat. Did you know that you can get to the end with only gaining like 1 level? It has a very high entry barrier, but with help, you'll have an amazing time with the game, I promise you this.

The thing about final fantasy is, it's never what we expect it to be. It's never gonna be FFVII or FFVI again(essentially the game game, despite perception of ff fanboys).

However, the new games are amazing as well, most people just get a bad first impression and never really learn how the game is meant to be played.

I'll be the first to say, FFXII has an average story and terrible character development. However, if given time, it has one of the best gameplay systems ever in a game. It's as good as Vagrant Story and FFTactics.

Believe it or not, that gameplay element has more than enough power to drive you through the whole game, it's very diablo 2 esque, which means that I clocked over 105 hours in the game and never even beat the weapon.

When I hear most people say FFXII sucks, or FFVIII sucks, I been there bro. I was right there with you, but luckily for myself, I had the feeling one day to say, "You know what, even though I thought it sucked, I bet there is something good there for me," and I went back and played it and I had the time of my life.

So, you can bet FFXIII isnt' gonna be what you, or most sony fanboys expect. However, there will be something there for me, and if that thing is as substantial as it was in FFXII, then I consider myself very lucky, because despite popular opinion and freshness of current games, FFXII still really blows MGS4 and GTAIV out of the water, when it comes to gameplay, depth, and sheer available playtime and fun.

That's the difference between the immediate gratification demanded by american gamers, and the subtle excellent tones perscribed by the best Japanese developers.

The most obvious exception is RE4, which despite its excellence is a very "american" japanese game.

Those are just my sentiments. I'm, again, very drunk.

I'm glad you see both series in the same light because they are similar in many respects with FF having better production quality. Its the people that think SO>>>FF with no concrete proof whatsoever that are bothering me not those who never cared for such games.

The gameplay was the main reason why I hated it. FIrstly I like turnbased rpgs better than real time ones. Secondly The gambit system was horrible imo. I felt like I wasnlt playing the game.

Make one I don't like? Let me see. These are my opinions on each of the gams since the Snes. 

IV= Exellent but there is better.

V= Never played too much into it, but I liked it.

VI- My favorite, and in my top ten rpgs, but I've played better.

VII- Average imo, and the most overated of the series.

VIII- It was pretty bad compared to others in the series, but still ok.

IX- Excellent game, but still better.

X- Good.

XI- I only played it once, but hated that they made a main series FF an mmo.

XII- Horrible, battle system, story, and left out most of what made FF an FF game.

Now tell me that based on my opinions I don't think its overrated. When people say FFXIII will be the best rpg this gen, and nothing will come even close because its a main series final fantasy, that isn't overrating? They act like nothing can come even close to it, but there are many games that have and surpassed it. Also did you read my post at all? I said star ocean looks like it could be the better  game to some people and seems to have alot of effort put into it. Is that praising it?

I agree with everything else other than the first statement. If square-enix tried so much to bring gameplay, I would have had more fun with the game. Imo the battle sytem of FFXII is horrible, and doesn't suit the series at all. Firstly I love turn-base more than real time so I may be a little bias there, but the gambit system was like it was playing for you. There was far more grinding than most FF games, and there was less of a Final Fantasy atmosphere. Now if they were truly trying to focus on the gameplay I would expect much better. As for everything else the characters were dull, the story was horrible, and like I said before there was barely anything in the game that is recognizable of FF. So I believe the game failed on all aspects. At least FFXIII seems to got rid of some of the stuff I hated by FFXII judging by that short amount of gameplay footage.