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Forums - Sony Discussion - Critical lesson Sony (hopefully) learnt this gen...

Pristine20 on 30 June 2008
makingmusic476 said:
Pristine20 said:
makingmusic476 said:
Pristine20 said:
makingmusic476 said:
Pristine20 said:

...make your own games and don't rely 100% on third parties (they're finicky)!

Who agrees that Sony used to make more AAA games back in the PSone gen? Then came the PS2 gen and the only AAA games I can think of that were developed by Sony is GT3 & 4

They even made great JRPGs on their own in the PSone gen...LOD anyone?

 

 

 

Sony published loads of great games last gen:

1st party:

Jak series
Ico/Shadow of the Colossus
God of War series
Ape Escape series
Twisted Metal series
Socom series
Syphon Filter series (though they weren't too good last gen)
Wipeout series

...and the already mentioned Gran Turismo series.

2nd party:

Ratchet series
Sly Cooper series

And the Legend of Dragoon is the ONLY jrpg Sony has ever internally developed.  They need to get SCEI working on another.

Maybe they could get Polyphony Digital to work on it.  Kaz has said he'd like to work on an RPG one day, and Omega Boost proves they're pretty good at making non-racing sim games.

 

Syphon filter was one of my fav series ps gen. They really blew it in the ps2 gen!

LOD was excellent...I wonder why they stopped making JRPGs? maybe they chose to rely on Square? Now that games like The Last Remnant  and SO4 are timed exclusives, I don't think they can rely on Square anymore. SCEI needs to step up their JRPG game

They rely on Level 5.  The published Level 5's Dark CLoud 1/2 and Rogue Galaxy for the ps2, Jeanne D'Arc for the PSP, and White Knight Chronicles for the ps3.  Sony actually owns all these properties.

If I were Sony, I would sign some sort of 2nd party contract with them or else buy them outright, so that they'd stop spending time on things like Professor Layton and DQIX on the DS and focus more on the PlayStation systems.

Though if they did that, I'd sure miss Prof. Layton. :(

 

I thought S-E was developing DQIX? Maybe level-5 isn't selling? And as someone pointed out already: they could purchase the company and lose the employees who make it great!

 

SE is publishing DQIX.  Level 5 are the developers.

 

 

Level-5 have a lot of work on their hands with two hotly anticipated titles. I'm surprised that S-E  outsourced DQIX! I guess FFXIII is more important!



"Dr. Tenma, according to you, lives are equal. That's why I live today. But you must have realised it by now...the only thing people are equal in is death"---Johann Liebert (MONSTER)

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives"---Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler

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makingmusic476 on 30 June 2008
Pristine20 said:
makingmusic476 said:
Pristine20 said:
makingmusic476 said:

They rely on Level 5.  The published Level 5's Dark CLoud 1/2 and Rogue Galaxy for the ps2, Jeanne D'Arc for the PSP, and White Knight Chronicles for the ps3.  Sony actually owns all these properties.

If I were Sony, I would sign some sort of 2nd party contract with them or else buy them outright, so that they'd stop spending time on things like Professor Layton and DQIX on the DS and focus more on the PlayStation systems.

Though if they did that, I'd sure miss Prof. Layton. :(

 

I thought S-E was developing DQIX? Maybe level-5 isn't selling? And as someone pointed out already: they could purchase the company and lose the employees who make it great!

 

SE is publishing DQIX.  Level 5 are the developers.

 

 

Level-5 have a lot of work on their hands with two hotly anticipated titles. I'm surprised that S-E  outsourced DQIX! I guess FFXIII is more important!

Level 5 also developed DQVIII.

I'm not sure why SE decided to bank on L5 after L5 had really only developed Dark Cloud 1/2, but it worked out for them. DQVIII was a critical and commercial success.

 



Bonafide732 on 30 June 2008
jman8 said:
Falcon095 said:
Rath said:
@XGamer.

Actually neither the N64 or the GC can really be considered complete failures, Nintendo made large amounts of cash with both of them. The Wii is also struggling to get third party support but there is no way it could be claimed to have in any way failed.

OT: Didn't Sony once own both Spyro and Crash? Why they sold off two (back then) very solid platformers I don't understand. Those were some of the best games on the PS1.

I'm still wondering why did they do that..

 

 

Naughty Dog made Crash and Insomniac made Spyro. After the PS1 days, the two devs wanted to make new franchises (Jak and Daxter and Ratchet and Clank, respectively). So why would Sony hold onto those two IPs when the studios don't even want to make those games? Would you really rather have Crash and Spyro over Jak and Ratchet?

 

 

 nope because jak is the shit.. and besides they had milked those two franchises for all they could anyway



THe oNLY TRue STuPiDiTY iS THe aCCePTaNCe oF iGNoRaNCe 

PSNTAG K_I_N_G__COKE

  The King Of The Iron Fist tournament

Pristine20 on 30 June 2008
Starmistkarmic said:
I liked Primal in the PS2 gen. Many people either didn't or forgot it exists. I only mention because the lists of 1st and 2nd party PS2 games almost always neglects this gem(at least I think it is.) Also, Drakan: The Ancient's Gate was pretty boss, too. :)

OT: I think Sony will have good representation this gen in both 1st, 2nd, and 3rd party titles both on the PS3 and the PSN. It's already showing that it can sell new IP's(Resistance, AC, Uncharted, HS), as well as established titles. Based on the sales of the first generation of software, I think Sony and the 3rd parties have a good idea of what the typical PS3 owner wants now as well as continuing to bring some fresh stuff(LBP, Pixeljunk Eden, Flowers, Afrika) to appeal to a bigger audience. As excited as I am about the announced games, I'm even more excited about the ones still on the drawing board.

 

I also loved Drakan but I was thinking of titles that will really sell the system and not another FPS (not saying drakan is an FPS). That said, first party titles have been slow to release...maybe they are really polishing them up now after the disgrace that was Lair. I actually thought Lair would be my new Drakan!



"Dr. Tenma, according to you, lives are equal. That's why I live today. But you must have realised it by now...the only thing people are equal in is death"---Johann Liebert (MONSTER)

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives"---Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler

Borkachev on 30 June 2008
Impulsivity said:
Borkachev said:
Through bribes MS has floated a 2nd rate console far longer then it would be allowed to persist normally.

Second-rate how? Developer support is what defines how good a console is. By securing that support, they turned the Xbox into a first-rate console.

 

   You cannot turn a console into a first rate console through buying exclusives.  The PS3 is a first rate console in that it uses cutting edge technology, can support large immersive and visually impressive worlds and has tons of added features for a high value total package.  The 360 is a crappy old tech computer with minimal features that has a hard time handling high end games.  When EPIC talked about porting GOW to the PC they discussed how a lot of the extra levels they added were way beyond what the 360 could handle; similarly if you compare the multi console releases which are dumbed down by the 360 with the PS3 only releases its like night and day.  If you compare the graphics of a game like Devil May Cry 4 with Heavenly Sword or even Call of Duty 4 with MGS4 its not even close.  

The 360 is a second rate console not due to support but due to design and capabilities.  The controller sucks, the system is noisier then 4 PM in Times Square, the DVD media is outdated and the processor isn't up to the tasks of modern gaming (Ninja Gaiden 2 has horrid Xbox level graphics and STILL hangs when there are more then 6 rival ninjas).  The console sucks which is why MS is bribing others and taking 6 billion dollars in losses to keep an inferior system afloat.  You can tell how good a console is by how little bribe money you have to pay; I don't remember anyone talking about Sony bribing people with the PS2.

The technology in the 360 is a year older than the PS3, and it still manages to deliver graphics that so far have been exactly on par with it -- and for cheaper. You cite 2 PS3 exclusives that look better than most 360 exclusives and multiplatform games, but the same can be done with the 360: say, Gears of War and Mass Effect. It's undebatable that the PS3 doesn't have the hardware advantage it should for something that launched a year later and for $200 more, and that's Sony's failing.

I say this as someone with no interest in buying a 360 right now. But man, you've got to give credit where credit's due.



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Starmistkarmic on 30 June 2008
Pristine20 said:
Starmistkarmic said:
I liked Primal in the PS2 gen. Many people either didn't or forgot it exists. I only mention because the lists of 1st and 2nd party PS2 games almost always neglects this gem(at least I think it is.) Also, Drakan: The Ancient's Gate was pretty boss, too. :)

OT: I think Sony will have good representation this gen in both 1st, 2nd, and 3rd party titles both on the PS3 and the PSN. It's already showing that it can sell new IP's(Resistance, AC, Uncharted, HS), as well as established titles. Based on the sales of the first generation of software, I think Sony and the 3rd parties have a good idea of what the typical PS3 owner wants now as well as continuing to bring some fresh stuff(LBP, Pixeljunk Eden, Flowers, Afrika) to appeal to a bigger audience. As excited as I am about the announced games, I'm even more excited about the ones still on the drawing board.

 

I also loved Drakan but I was thinking of titles that will really sell the system and not another FPS (not saying drakan is an FPS). That said, first party titles have been slow to release...maybe they are really polishing them up now after the disgrace that was Lair. I actually thought Lair would be my new Drakan!


Ahhhh, gotchya....I should pay more attention and maybe try some comprehension with my reading. :P Oh, and I'm totally with you on the Parasite Eve thing. I bought part 1 day 1 and only just finished it for the first time this year(don't ask why, I'm just ridiculous.) Same story with part 2. I would kill for a part 3! It's #1 on my list of most wanted series to restart .

misterd on 30 June 2008
Pristine20 said:

...make your own games and don't rely 100% on third parties (they're finicky)!

Who agrees that Sony used to make more AAA games back in the PSone gen? Then came the PS2 gen and the only AAA games I can think of that were developed by Sony is GT3 & 4

They even made great JRPGs on their own in the PSone gen...LOD anyone?

 

 

No. No. NO.

It was not the third parties who insisted on a $600 console, and told fans that it was a bargain. It was not third parties who told Sony to launch prematurely, so they would be unable to meet demand and create a huge scalper's market. It was not third parties who made a laughable effort to pass six-axis off as something new and revolutionary. 

Sony screwed themselves. They made choices based on what they wanted, not what gamers wanted. They then insulted the audience that carried them to the top with a series of arrogant and misleading statements over the course of 2005 and 2006.

Next time, Sony should LISTEN to the third parties, who told them the PS3 was a folly.

Next time, Sony should listen to the fans, who were happy with their PS2s and not about to part with six bills for a new system.

 



PapaSmurf5721 on 01 July 2008

zSony has the best First party lineup then any other.



                                     

                             End of 2008 Sales:

               Wii- 39 Million 360- 25Million PS3- 22 Million

                          PSN: papasmurf5721

                  

 

         

 

                                                   

      

mesoteto on 01 July 2008

i dont think the game line p was as big a goof as the price from the start and the horrible pr team that couldn't say anything right...i mean at one point they probably could have started drooping babies and still would have looked better then what they were doing



 

Pristine20 on 01 July 2008
misterd said:
Pristine20 said:

...make your own games and don't rely 100% on third parties (they're finicky)!

Who agrees that Sony used to make more AAA games back in the PSone gen? Then came the PS2 gen and the only AAA games I can think of that were developed by Sony is GT3 & 4

They even made great JRPGs on their own in the PSone gen...LOD anyone?

 

 

No. No. NO.

It was not the third parties who insisted on a $600 console, and told fans that it was a bargain. It was not third parties who told Sony to launch prematurely, so they would be unable to meet demand and create a huge scalper's market. It was not third parties who made a laughable effort to pass six-axis off as something new and revolutionary. 

Sony screwed themselves. They made choices based on what they wanted, not what gamers wanted. They then insulted the audience that carried them to the top with a series of arrogant and misleading statements over the course of 2005 and 2006.

Next time, Sony should LISTEN to the third parties, who told them the PS3 was a folly.

Next time, Sony should listen to the fans, who were happy with their PS2s and not about to part with six bills for a new system.

 

 

 I agree that sony screwed themselves with their hardware costs but that doesn't excuse crappy 3rd party ports like the orange box and quake wars! It also doesn't excuse all the "delayed exclusives" this gen around! However, all this won't be a problem if sony had a stronger, consistent 1st party line-up---thats my point. The flip-flopping of 3rd parties is my reason for calling them finicky. Hell, even S-E, that Sony bought a lot of shares in when they were worthless, is releasing an exclusive and multiple "delayed exclusives for the 360"!



"Dr. Tenma, according to you, lives are equal. That's why I live today. But you must have realised it by now...the only thing people are equal in is death"---Johann Liebert (MONSTER)

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives"---Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler