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Forums - Sony Discussion - Critical lesson Sony (hopefully) learnt this gen...

makingmusic476 on 30 June 2008
Pristine20 said:

...make your own games and don't rely 100% on third parties (they're finicky)!

Who agrees that Sony used to make more AAA games back in the PSone gen? Then came the PS2 gen and the only AAA games I can think of that were developed by Sony is GT3 & 4

They even made great JRPGs on their own in the PSone gen...LOD anyone?

 

 

 

Sony published loads of great games last gen:

1st party:

Jak series
Ico/Shadow of the Colossus
God of War series
Ape Escape series
Twisted Metal series
Socom series
Syphon Filter series (though they weren't too good last gen)
Wipeout series

...and the already mentioned Gran Turismo series.

2nd party:

Ratchet series
Sly Cooper series

And the Legend of Dragoon is the ONLY jrpg Sony has ever internally developed.  They need to get SCEI working on another.

Maybe they could get Polyphony Digital to work on it.  Kaz has said he'd like to work on an RPG one day, and Omega Boost proves they're pretty good at making non-racing sim games.

 



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makingmusic476 on 30 June 2008
fkusumot said:

FY                 Sony              Nintendo                Microsoft
2002        623,000,000        800,000,000          -750,000,000
2003        939,000,000        560,000,000        -1,191,000,000
2004        650,000,000        316,000,000        -1,215,000,000
2005        404,000,000        777,000,000           -485,000,000
2006          75,000,000        894,000,000        -1,262,000,000
2007    -1,969,000,000      1,489,000,000        -1,892,000,000
2008       -965,000,000     2,193,000,000             532,000,000
Total      -243,000,000      7,029,000,000        -6,263,000,000

 

What does this have to do with the topic at hand?



Blacksaber on 30 June 2008
Impulsivity said:
Borkachev said:

I hope they learned a lot of lessons this generation. I'm not sure this was one of their mistakes, though. Seems to me that Sony's going in both guns blazing on its first-party franchises, and it's got some good ones. Among them:

Gran Turismo

God of War

Ico/SotC

Jak and Daxter

Killzone

LittleBigPlanet

MotorStorm

Ratchet & Clank

Resistance

SOCOM

Syphon Filter

Twisted Metal

Uncharted

Warhawk

White Knight Chronicles

Note that many of those also appeared last gen, so it wasn't just Gran Turismo.

This isn't something you're supposed to say in polite company, but in my opinion Sony has the best first-party holdings in the world. Better than Nintendo.

 

   Its not as much that Sony has better first party holdings then Nintendo as it is that they actually develop NEW ideas!

 

   Can anyone think of a new IP from the last 20 years Nintendo has created?  OK Pikmin, Ill give you that, what else?  Anyone?  Anyone?  Exactly.

   Nintendo is up to Mario 10, Metroid 6, Zelda 9, Mario Kart 7, Mario Party 8 ect.  They have had very few new ideas for quality franchises over the past 2 decades.  With every new Nintendo system you know exactly what games you're going to get, its just a question of when.

   Sony has new and very cool franchises that pop up even if its sometimes hit and miss.  They even have a few I really liked that haven't been developed in a while like Jet Moto or Legends of Dragoon.  Heavenly Sword is also owned by Sony even if Ninja Theory isn't making the next one.  They have cool new characters every few years and develop them from scratch into interesting and compelling franchises.  One thing I prefer about the PS systems is I DON'T know what I'm going to get ahead of time, there are always great games like Resistance, Uncharted, Heavenly Sword and LIttle Big Planet to surprise me.

 

AC, WarioWare, Paper Mario, Donkey Konk Barrel games, Mario Strikers, Super Smash Bros, Luigi's mansion, Battlion Wars from the top of my head and I've only had A Ninty since gamecube..Anyone wants to add go on since I haven't had many of them...



Former something....

Pristine20 on 30 June 2008
fkusumot said:

FY                 Sony              Nintendo                Microsoft
2002        623,000,000        800,000,000          -750,000,000
2003        939,000,000        560,000,000        -1,191,000,000
2004        650,000,000        316,000,000        -1,215,000,000
2005        404,000,000        777,000,000           -485,000,000
2006          75,000,000        894,000,000        -1,262,000,000
2007    -1,969,000,000      1,489,000,000        -1,892,000,000
2008       -965,000,000     2,193,000,000             532,000,000
Total      -243,000,000      7,029,000,000        -6,263,000,000

your point? If you don't have anything to add to the discussion, it is not necessary to post

 



"Dr. Tenma, according to you, lives are equal. That's why I live today. But you must have realised it by now...the only thing people are equal in is death"---Johann Liebert (MONSTER)

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives"---Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler

sc94597 on 30 June 2008
Impulsivity said:
snip

 

   Its not as much that Sony has better first party holdings then Nintendo as it is that they actually develop NEW ideas!

 

   Can anyone think of a new IP from the last 20 years Nintendo has created?  OK Pikmin, Ill give you that, what else?  Anyone?  Anyone?  Exactly.

   Nintendo is up to Mario 10, Metroid 6, Zelda 9, Mario Kart 7, Mario Party 8 ect.  They have had very few new ideas for quality franchises over the past 2 decades.  With every new Nintendo system you know exactly what games you're going to get, its just a question of when.

   Sony has new and very cool franchises that pop up even if its sometimes hit and miss.  They even have a few I really liked that haven't been developed in a while like Jet Moto or Legends of Dragoon.  Heavenly Sword is also owned by Sony even if Ninja Theory isn't making the next one.  They have cool new characters every few years and develop them from scratch into interesting and compelling franchises.  One thing I prefer about the PS systems is I DON'T know what I'm going to get ahead of time, there are always great games like Resistance, Uncharted, Heavenly Sword and LIttle Big Planet to surprise me.

Wii Fit, Wii Sports, Wii Play, Nintendogs,Golden Sun,  Distaster Day of Crisis, Wii Music, Kid Icarus is being revived, Animal Crossing, Brain Age, Battalion Wars, Eternal Darkness, Warioware, all of monolith softs games are theirs now(batein katios.Soma Bringer, Disaster day of crisis as mentioned eariler, Is xenosaga owned by monolith?), Excite Truck, I think endless ocean, and Project hammer is on hold, but could take developement anytime. I expect even more new quality IPs since retro is working on two games that aren't metroid, Monolith is most likely working on a wii rpg, and there will probably be more entries in the wii series. Also all of those games I mentioned started the past two generations.

 



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Impulsivity on 30 June 2008

I have no idea what AC is, but Ill give you battalion wars (and advance wars for that matter).  As to compilation mini games like Wario Ware and Supe Smash Bros A) the ideas are over 10 years old now and B) its not the same as a new IP.  Making Crash Bandicoot racing is not the same as creating a new IP, its just a cheap shortcut.

 

Oh yah Animal Crossing...how could I forget that one...I remember when it didn't have animals and was out on the SNES, it was called Harvest Moon then.  

Again though, mini game collections are not the same as a real IP.  Wii Sports or Brain Age is hardly A) a new idea (many many other people have made mini game collections that are similar if not identical in most cases) or B) anything that has any merit to anyone who is really interested in games that most people on this forum probably consider games.  Carnival games does indeed come on a disk, but I would hardly call it a video game in the same way as say a Metal Gear or even a Zelda is a game.

 

   Even if you can't call Excite Truck (after Excite Bike 20 years ago) or a new Kid Icarus game (after the ones 20 years ago) identical, they are certainly derivative and not at all a new and interesting experience.




 PSN ID: ChosenOne feel free to add me

Pristine20 on 30 June 2008
Impulsivity said:

@ pristine20

   You and me both on the S-E thing.  I would give just about anything for a Parasite Eve 3.  That was the pinnacle of the survival horror scene and action RPG scene at the same time.  I can't think of a single better action RPG, why they haven't made another (even though the first two DID sell a ton) is beyond me.  Now the only action RPGs I get from Square star Mickey and Goofy instead of New York detectives.

 

It looks like we think alike. In my opinion, PE1&2>>>>>>>>RE anything and I'm not a big fan of KH either. I think its more a nintendo-type game with the goofy character models. I'll pay $120 for PE3!



"Dr. Tenma, according to you, lives are equal. That's why I live today. But you must have realised it by now...the only thing people are equal in is death"---Johann Liebert (MONSTER)

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives"---Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler

Impulsivity on 30 June 2008
Pristine20 said:
Impulsivity said:

@ pristine20

   You and me both on the S-E thing.  I would give just about anything for a Parasite Eve 3.  That was the pinnacle of the survival horror scene and action RPG scene at the same time.  I can't think of a single better action RPG, why they haven't made another (even though the first two DID sell a ton) is beyond me.  Now the only action RPGs I get from Square star Mickey and Goofy instead of New York detectives.

 

It looks like we think alike. In my opinion, PE1&2>>>>>>>>RE anything and I'm not a big fan of KH either. I think its more a nintendo-type game with the goofy character models. I'll pay $120 for PE3!

 

       I bid 200!




 PSN ID: ChosenOne feel free to add me

HappySqurriel on 30 June 2008

One of the lessons that Nintendo learned from the Gamecube/N64 that Sony really should learn is that you need to be very agressive with your software when you launch a system ... After 2 years on the market the Wii will have seen sequels to (pretty much) every major franchise of Nintendo, while the PS3 will have seen very few of Sony's strongest properties.

If you want people to get excited about the system you have created (especially if it is considered unusually expensive) you really need to provide them the software they desire in order to build momentium...



Pristine20 on 30 June 2008
makingmusic476 said:
Pristine20 said:

...make your own games and don't rely 100% on third parties (they're finicky)!

Who agrees that Sony used to make more AAA games back in the PSone gen? Then came the PS2 gen and the only AAA games I can think of that were developed by Sony is GT3 & 4

They even made great JRPGs on their own in the PSone gen...LOD anyone?

 

 

 

Sony published loads of great games last gen:

1st party:

Jak series
Ico/Shadow of the Colossus
God of War series
Ape Escape series
Twisted Metal series
Socom series
Syphon Filter series (though they weren't too good last gen)
Wipeout series

...and the already mentioned Gran Turismo series.

2nd party:

Ratchet series
Sly Cooper series

And the Legend of Dragoon is the ONLY jrpg Sony has ever internally developed.  They need to get SCEI working on another.

Maybe they could get Polyphony Digital to work on it.  Kaz has said he'd like to work on an RPG one day, and Omega Boost proves they're pretty good at making non-racing sim games.

 

Syphon filter was one of my fav series ps gen. They really blew it in the ps2 gen!

LOD was excellent...I wonder why they stopped making JRPGs? maybe they chose to rely on Square? Now that games like The Last Remnant  and SO4 are timed exclusives, I don't think they can rely on Square anymore. SCEI needs to step up their JRPG game



"Dr. Tenma, according to you, lives are equal. That's why I live today. But you must have realised it by now...the only thing people are equal in is death"---Johann Liebert (MONSTER)

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives"---Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler