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Forums - Gaming Discussion - It begins the creator of GEARS OF WAR calls MGS4 " passive entertainment"

Fishie on 27 June 2008
el_rika said:
@ Fishie

I see you are the biggest MGS4 hater on this forum. Sure, everrybody is entitled to have an opinion, but you are really trying too hard to put down a game that every single critic everywhere praises for it's amazing storyline & storytelling and deep rewarding gameplay.
Sure, there's nothing incredibly wrong with dissagreeing with the majority, but the more you post, there more you leave the impression you are actually trying to convince yourself and not the rest.
Just a word of advice - pissing against the current usually leaves you wet, so i'd say stop trying so hard as you'll gain nothing.

 

 I like it wet, means I dont have to try as hard.



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DTG on 27 June 2008
Fishie said:
DTG said:
Fishie said:
Riachu said:
Fishie said:
You want storytelling, go read a book.
You want cinematics, go see a movie.

Meanwhile quit ragging on Bioshock, a game that actually gave the player the opportunity to see more of the story as part of the actual GAME PLAY.

Game play, you know, that thing that seperates us from movies and books.
The thing that makes this particular artform more involved then the other two.

I am not ripping on Bioschock. I have only played a small part of it but it was one of my older brother's favorite games of last year

 

You could have fooled me when you said that Levine`s design decisions regarding the story were SHAMEFULL.

 

 

Actually I said that. It is shameful that Levine gave the storyline a backseat to the game design actually compromising the original plot in the name of gameplay.

Which made it a MUCH better game.

MGS4 would be a lot better then it is as well if they had ommited some of the story crap and added some actual beef to the crappy gameplay.

 

 

Maybe a more "playable" game but not a better one. No artist compromises his work for the sake of mainstream approval or it is no longer true art. Storyline should be the foundation of any video game and the gameplay should be built and molded around the plot not vice versa. It's a question of intellect vs. mindless entertainment and which we value more. The intellect is contained within the messages of the storyline and should not be amended merely for fun gameplay.

Kojima's design philosophy is building the gameplay around the storyline and prioritizing the later -making no compromises to the messages he wishes to convey in the name of throaway entertainment -which is how it should be.



el_rika on 27 June 2008
Fishie said:
el_rika said:
@ Fishie

I see you are the biggest MGS4 hater on this forum. Sure, everrybody is entitled to have an opinion, but you are really trying too hard to put down a game that every single critic everywhere praises for it's amazing storyline & storytelling and deep rewarding gameplay.
Sure, there's nothing incredibly wrong with dissagreeing with the majority, but the more you post, there more you leave the impression you are actually trying to convince yourself and not the rest.
Just a word of advice - pissing against the current usually leaves you wet, so i'd say stop trying so hard as you'll gain nothing.

 

 I like it wet, means I dont have to try as hard.

I give your reply an "M" rating ^_^

 



"You have the right to the remains of a silent attorney"

Fishie on 27 June 2008
DTG said:
Fishie said:
DTG said:
Fishie said:
Riachu said:
Fishie said:
You want storytelling, go read a book.
You want cinematics, go see a movie.

Meanwhile quit ragging on Bioshock, a game that actually gave the player the opportunity to see more of the story as part of the actual GAME PLAY.

Game play, you know, that thing that seperates us from movies and books.
The thing that makes this particular artform more involved then the other two.

I am not ripping on Bioschock. I have only played a small part of it but it was one of my older brother's favorite games of last year

 

You could have fooled me when you said that Levine`s design decisions regarding the story were SHAMEFULL.

 

 

Actually I said that. It is shameful that Levine gave the storyline a backseat to the game design actually compromising the original plot in the name of gameplay.

Which made it a MUCH better game.

MGS4 would be a lot better then it is as well if they had ommited some of the story crap and added some actual beef to the crappy gameplay.

 

 

Maybe a more "playable" game but not a better one. No artist compromises his work for the sake of mainstream approval or it is no longer true art. Storyline should be the foundation of any video game and the gameplay should be built and molded around the plot not vice versa. It's a question of intellect vs. mindless entertainment and which we value more. The intellect is contained within the messages of the storyline and should not be amended merely for fun gameplay.

Kojima's design philosophy is building the gameplay around the storyline and prioritizing the later -making no compromises to the messages he wishes to convey in the name of throaway entertainment -which is how it should be.

 

 Wow so Tetris and Pong must be the WORST GAMES EVAH?

 

Also, Kojima has altered his games previously to please his fanbase and one could argue that MGS4  defines the word fanservice. He made the game the fans wanted him to make.



DTG on 27 June 2008
Fishie said:
DTG said:
Fishie said:
DTG said:
Fishie said:
Riachu said:
Fishie said:
You want storytelling, go read a book.
You want cinematics, go see a movie.

Meanwhile quit ragging on Bioshock, a game that actually gave the player the opportunity to see more of the story as part of the actual GAME PLAY.

Game play, you know, that thing that seperates us from movies and books.
The thing that makes this particular artform more involved then the other two.

I am not ripping on Bioschock. I have only played a small part of it but it was one of my older brother's favorite games of last year

 

You could have fooled me when you said that Levine`s design decisions regarding the story were SHAMEFULL.

 

 

Actually I said that. It is shameful that Levine gave the storyline a backseat to the game design actually compromising the original plot in the name of gameplay.

Which made it a MUCH better game.

MGS4 would be a lot better then it is as well if they had ommited some of the story crap and added some actual beef to the crappy gameplay.

 

 

Maybe a more "playable" game but not a better one. No artist compromises his work for the sake of mainstream approval or it is no longer true art. Storyline should be the foundation of any video game and the gameplay should be built and molded around the plot not vice versa. It's a question of intellect vs. mindless entertainment and which we value more. The intellect is contained within the messages of the storyline and should not be amended merely for fun gameplay.

Kojima's design philosophy is building the gameplay around the storyline and prioritizing the later -making no compromises to the messages he wishes to convey in the name of throaway entertainment -which is how it should be.

 

Wow so Tetris and Pong must be the WORST GAMES EVAH?

 

Reality is back in the 70's and 80's we did not have the technology to stress the cinematic aspect of VIDEO games yet. Now that games have reached parity with movies in terms of visual aesthetics it should be expected that developers take advantage of a video games storytelling capability. VIDEO games afterall, as the name itself suggests were created as a paradigm to movies where you are in control of the character. While the action was established the storytelling abilities of movies were not yet possible on 8 bit hardware. Now that they are, video games have reached what the industry has always strived towards -the possibility of true interactive movie experiences where cinema and gameplay blend under a single narrative arch.



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bardicverse on 27 June 2008

What I find funny is the comments like "guys making games in their grandmother's basement" or whatever. This is humorous to me, as that's how most of the great dev teams started - as basement office dev teams consisting of a few friends. Without these very type of developers that you're insulting, the game industry would have never grown to what it is today, and you'd all be out tripping on shrooms and tipping cows, because you have nothing else to do.

While I agree, CliffyB is a bigmouth, there are some concessions to be made regarding MGS4. The cutscenes are excessive, and only people who enjoy movies will appreciate them. I am not in this camp, and would sooner take a sledgehammer to my console than sit there and WATCH a game for the better part of an hour instead of playing it. Cutscenes are an expensive cheap way to make programming easier. I myself appreciate it much more when the story unfolds through the gaming action. Yet, that's just my preference.



DTG on 27 June 2008

Also, Kojima has altered his games previously to please his fanbase and one could argue that MGS4 defines the word fanservice. He made the game the fans wanted him to make.

 

If that were true than MGS4 wouldn't resemble MGS2 so cosely in it's narrative approach. An extremely cutscene heavy game with a often confusing narrative focusing on expressing Kojima's thematic ambitions in touching upon the realms of philosophy and politics. MGS1 and MGS3 were hardly divise compared to the backlash which MGS2 and now MGS4 is recieving. Kojima could have played it safe and cut back on the exposition as he did in MGS3, but he didn't and in the process created what is the most thematic game since Killer 7.



Fishie on 27 June 2008
DTG said:
Fishie said:
DTG said:
Fishie said:
DTG said:
Fishie said:
Riachu said:
Fishie said:
You want storytelling, go read a book.
You want cinematics, go see a movie.

Meanwhile quit ragging on Bioshock, a game that actually gave the player the opportunity to see more of the story as part of the actual GAME PLAY.

Game play, you know, that thing that seperates us from movies and books.
The thing that makes this particular artform more involved then the other two.

I am not ripping on Bioschock. I have only played a small part of it but it was one of my older brother's favorite games of last year

 

You could have fooled me when you said that Levine`s design decisions regarding the story were SHAMEFULL.

 

 

Actually I said that. It is shameful that Levine gave the storyline a backseat to the game design actually compromising the original plot in the name of gameplay.

Which made it a MUCH better game.

MGS4 would be a lot better then it is as well if they had ommited some of the story crap and added some actual beef to the crappy gameplay.

 

 

Maybe a more "playable" game but not a better one. No artist compromises his work for the sake of mainstream approval or it is no longer true art. Storyline should be the foundation of any video game and the gameplay should be built and molded around the plot not vice versa. It's a question of intellect vs. mindless entertainment and which we value more. The intellect is contained within the messages of the storyline and should not be amended merely for fun gameplay.

Kojima's design philosophy is building the gameplay around the storyline and prioritizing the later -making no compromises to the messages he wishes to convey in the name of throaway entertainment -which is how it should be.

 

Wow so Tetris and Pong must be the WORST GAMES EVAH?

 

Reality is back in the 70's and 80's we did not have the technology to stress the cinematic aspect of VIDEO games yet. Now that games have reached parity with movies in terms of visual aesthetics it should be expected that developers take advantage of a video games storytelling capability. VIDEO games afterall, as the name itself suggests were created as a paradigm to movies where you are in control of the character. While the action was established the storytelling abilities of movies were not yet possible on 8 bit hardware. Now that they are, video games have reached what the industry has always strived towards -the possibility of true interactive movie experiences where cinema and gameplay blend under a single narrative arch.

 

 What sort of crappy movies do you watch if you think real time technology is up there with what the movie industry has to offer?



Fishie on 27 June 2008
DTG said:

Also, Kojima has altered his games previously to please his fanbase and one could argue that MGS4 defines the word fanservice. He made the game the fans wanted him to make.

 

If that were true than MGS4 wouldn't resemble MGS2 so cosely in it's narrative approach. An extremely cutscene heavy game with a often confusing narrative focusing on expressing Kojima's thematic ambitions in touching upon the realms of philosophy and politics. MGS1 and MGS3 were hardly divise compared to the backlash which MGS2 and now MGS4 is recieving. Kojima could have played it safe and cut back on the exposition as he did in MGS3, but he didn't and in the process created what is the most thematic game since Killer 7.

Play it safe by copying the worst selling instalment of the franchise?

Something tells me you didnt entirely think your response trough.

 



DTG on 27 June 2008
Fishie said:
DTG said:
Fishie said:
DTG said:
Fishie said:
DTG said:
Fishie said:
Riachu said:
Fishie said:
You want storytelling, go read a book.
You want cinematics, go see a movie.

Meanwhile quit ragging on Bioshock, a game that actually gave the player the opportunity to see more of the story as part of the actual GAME PLAY.

Game play, you know, that thing that seperates us from movies and books.
The thing that makes this particular artform more involved then the other two.

I am not ripping on Bioschock. I have only played a small part of it but it was one of my older brother's favorite games of last year

 

You could have fooled me when you said that Levine`s design decisions regarding the story were SHAMEFULL.

 

 

Actually I said that. It is shameful that Levine gave the storyline a backseat to the game design actually compromising the original plot in the name of gameplay.

Which made it a MUCH better game.

MGS4 would be a lot better then it is as well if they had ommited some of the story crap and added some actual beef to the crappy gameplay.

 

 

Maybe a more "playable" game but not a better one. No artist compromises his work for the sake of mainstream approval or it is no longer true art. Storyline should be the foundation of any video game and the gameplay should be built and molded around the plot not vice versa. It's a question of intellect vs. mindless entertainment and which we value more. The intellect is contained within the messages of the storyline and should not be amended merely for fun gameplay.

Kojima's design philosophy is building the gameplay around the storyline and prioritizing the later -making no compromises to the messages he wishes to convey in the name of throaway entertainment -which is how it should be.

 

Wow so Tetris and Pong must be the WORST GAMES EVAH?

 

Reality is back in the 70's and 80's we did not have the technology to stress the cinematic aspect of VIDEO games yet. Now that games have reached parity with movies in terms of visual aesthetics it should be expected that developers take advantage of a video games storytelling capability. VIDEO games afterall, as the name itself suggests were created as a paradigm to movies where you are in control of the character. While the action was established the storytelling abilities of movies were not yet possible on 8 bit hardware. Now that they are, video games have reached what the industry has always strived towards -the possibility of true interactive movie experiences where cinema and gameplay blend under a single narrative arch.

 

What sort of crappy movies do you watch if you think real time technology is up there with what the movie industry has to offer?

 

Your one liner comebacks miss the point entirely and make me question how vested in your opinions you truly are or if you're simply spouting nonsense for the sake of controversy. I actually watch movies from the early 1900's before the days of color and HD yet even those films managed to carry a more decent story than most video games of today. The fact is that the cinematic qualities of video games are now capable of delivering deep storylines in both the characters expressions, emotions as well as through it's narrative dialogue.