By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming Discussion - It begins the creator of GEARS OF WAR calls MGS4 " passive entertainment"

Riachu on 26 June 2008
DTG said:
Stats87 said:

After playing MGS4, my Upper-Division Social and Political Philosophy course is a cakewalk.

John Rawls, Kierkegaard and Kant have nothing on Hideo Kojima

Exactly. Kojima though unlike Kant and others is an artist so he express' his ideas differently but is just as profound as any other.

Also, those pointing to Bioshock as an example of vg storytelling should realize Originally, BioShock had a storyline which was significantly different to that of the released version. the story underwent changes, consistent with what Levine says was then-Irrational Games's guiding principle of putting game design first.

IG compromised the story in the name of game design which is shameful and questions the true integrity and depth of the resulting storyline. Kojima is a storyteller first and makes compromises to the gameplay to present his vision in its original form rather than vice versa. That's what elevates Kojima above other game designers that the storyline is the foundation of his games as it should be while other developers simply tack on and alter the plot to mesh with the gameplay.

Bioshock has a type of a story you are able to put directly in to the gameplay while MGS4 has a story that requires cutscenes to fully explain.

 



 

http://www.youtube.com/user/InvaderZimGuy1?feature=mhum

Around the Network
DTG on 26 June 2008
Riachu said:
DTG said:
Stats87 said:

After playing MGS4, my Upper-Division Social and Political Philosophy course is a cakewalk.

John Rawls, Kierkegaard and Kant have nothing on Hideo Kojima

Exactly. Kojima though unlike Kant and others is an artist so he express' his ideas differently but is just as profound as any other.

Also, those pointing to Bioshock as an example of vg storytelling should realize Originally, BioShock had a storyline which was significantly different to that of the released version. the story underwent changes, consistent with what Levine says was then-Irrational Games's guiding principle of putting game design first.

IG compromised the story in the name of game design which is shameful and questions the true integrity and depth of the resulting storyline. Kojima is a storyteller first and makes compromises to the gameplay to present his vision in its original form rather than vice versa. That's what elevates Kojima above other game designers that the storyline is the foundation of his games as it should be while other developers simply tack on and alter the plot to mesh with the gameplay.

Bioshock has a type of a story you are able to put directly in to the gameplay while MGS4 has a story that requires cutscenes to fully explain.

 

 

The problem is that Irrational compromised the storyline for gameplay design reasons which showcases their design philosophy of story taking a backseat to gameplay. Kojima builds the gameplay around the storyline which means he makes no compromises to his storytelling vision elevating an autenticity behind his messages. Storyline should be the basis of everything and Irrational doesn't respect that, they tinker with the plot merely to make it fit with the gameplay rather than vice versa.

 



Riachu on 26 June 2008
DTG said:
Riachu said:
DTG said:
Stats87 said:

After playing MGS4, my Upper-Division Social and Political Philosophy course is a cakewalk.

John Rawls, Kierkegaard and Kant have nothing on Hideo Kojima

Exactly. Kojima though unlike Kant and others is an artist so he express' his ideas differently but is just as profound as any other.

Also, those pointing to Bioshock as an example of vg storytelling should realize Originally, BioShock had a storyline which was significantly different to that of the released version. the story underwent changes, consistent with what Levine says was then-Irrational Games's guiding principle of putting game design first.

IG compromised the story in the name of game design which is shameful and questions the true integrity and depth of the resulting storyline. Kojima is a storyteller first and makes compromises to the gameplay to present his vision in its original form rather than vice versa. That's what elevates Kojima above other game designers that the storyline is the foundation of his games as it should be while other developers simply tack on and alter the plot to mesh with the gameplay.

Bioshock has a type of a story you are able to put directly in to the gameplay while MGS4 has a story that requires cutscenes to fully explain.

 

 

The problem is that Irrational compromised the storyline for gameplay design reasons which showcases their design philosophy of story taking a backseat to gameplay. Kojima builds the gameplay around the storyline which means he makes no compromises to his storytelling vision elevating an autenticity behind his messages. Storyline should be the basis of everything and Irrational doesn't respect that, they tinker with the plot merely to make it fit with the gameplay rather than vice versa.

 

Bioshock was never meant to be a story-heavy game like the MGS series was.  The reason why the MGS series is so story heavy is because Kojima wanted to be a film director before he became a game designer.

 



 

http://www.youtube.com/user/InvaderZimGuy1?feature=mhum

DTG on 26 June 2008
Riachu said:
DTG said:
Riachu said:
DTG said:
Stats87 said:

After playing MGS4, my Upper-Division Social and Political Philosophy course is a cakewalk.

John Rawls, Kierkegaard and Kant have nothing on Hideo Kojima

Exactly. Kojima though unlike Kant and others is an artist so he express' his ideas differently but is just as profound as any other.

Also, those pointing to Bioshock as an example of vg storytelling should realize Originally, BioShock had a storyline which was significantly different to that of the released version. the story underwent changes, consistent with what Levine says was then-Irrational Games's guiding principle of putting game design first.

IG compromised the story in the name of game design which is shameful and questions the true integrity and depth of the resulting storyline. Kojima is a storyteller first and makes compromises to the gameplay to present his vision in its original form rather than vice versa. That's what elevates Kojima above other game designers that the storyline is the foundation of his games as it should be while other developers simply tack on and alter the plot to mesh with the gameplay.

Bioshock has a type of a story you are able to put directly in to the gameplay while MGS4 has a story that requires cutscenes to fully explain.

 

 

The problem is that Irrational compromised the storyline for gameplay design reasons which showcases their design philosophy of story taking a backseat to gameplay. Kojima builds the gameplay around the storyline which means he makes no compromises to his storytelling vision elevating an autenticity behind his messages. Storyline should be the basis of everything and Irrational doesn't respect that, they tinker with the plot merely to make it fit with the gameplay rather than vice versa.

 

Bioshock was never meant to be a story-heavy game like the MGS series was. The reason why the MGS series is so story heavy is because Kojima wanted to be a film director before he became a game designer.

 

 

Which is why people shouldn't be claiming Bioshock to have superior storytelling to MGS4 when one doesn't even prioritize it's story while the other does.



Riachu on 26 June 2008
DTG said:
Riachu said:
DTG said:
Riachu said:
DTG said:
Stats87 said:

After playing MGS4, my Upper-Division Social and Political Philosophy course is a cakewalk.

John Rawls, Kierkegaard and Kant have nothing on Hideo Kojima

Exactly. Kojima though unlike Kant and others is an artist so he express' his ideas differently but is just as profound as any other.

Also, those pointing to Bioshock as an example of vg storytelling should realize Originally, BioShock had a storyline which was significantly different to that of the released version. the story underwent changes, consistent with what Levine says was then-Irrational Games's guiding principle of putting game design first.

IG compromised the story in the name of game design which is shameful and questions the true integrity and depth of the resulting storyline. Kojima is a storyteller first and makes compromises to the gameplay to present his vision in its original form rather than vice versa. That's what elevates Kojima above other game designers that the storyline is the foundation of his games as it should be while other developers simply tack on and alter the plot to mesh with the gameplay.

Bioshock has a type of a story you are able to put directly in to the gameplay while MGS4 has a story that requires cutscenes to fully explain.

 

 

The problem is that Irrational compromised the storyline for gameplay design reasons which showcases their design philosophy of story taking a backseat to gameplay. Kojima builds the gameplay around the storyline which means he makes no compromises to his storytelling vision elevating an autenticity behind his messages. Storyline should be the basis of everything and Irrational doesn't respect that, they tinker with the plot merely to make it fit with the gameplay rather than vice versa.

 

Bioshock was never meant to be a story-heavy game like the MGS series was. The reason why the MGS series is so story heavy is because Kojima wanted to be a film director before he became a game designer.

 

 

Which is why people shouldn't be claiming Bioshock to have superior storytelling to MGS4 when one doesn't even prioritize it's story while the other does.

People think the storytelling in MGS4 is archaic because that think that cutscenes are 'boring' when MGS series has very well-produced cutscenes that very few JRPGs can compare to

 



 

http://www.youtube.com/user/InvaderZimGuy1?feature=mhum

Around the Network
Fishie on 26 June 2008

You want storytelling, go read a book.
You want cinematics, go see a movie.

Meanwhile quit ragging on Bioshock, a game that actually gave the player the opportunity to see more of the story as part of the actual GAME PLAY.

Game play, you know, that thing that seperates us from movies and books.
The thing that makes this particular artform more involved then the other two.



Strategyking92 on 26 June 2008
leo-j said:
.:Dark Prince:. said:
leo-j said:
.:Dark Prince:. said:
I actually kinda agree with him.

When half the game is videos in which you do nothing, then play 5 minutes and then another 30 minutes of cutscenes, it IS a form of passive entertainment.

I am a huge MGS fan but even I can't argue that, especially with MGS4 which i do not love as much as the older ones. I mean, i'm on Act 3 and the game is really boring right now.

The only reason i love MGS so much is the cutscenes. Kojima really has a talent in storytelling.

 

 Well ACT1-3 is boring compared to the rest of the game.

Acts 1 & 2 are masterpieces compared to Act 3.

I really hope you're right and the rest of the game is better.

 

If you played MGS1 you might even cry.

 

Then I feel sorry for you.

 



And that's the only thing I need is *this*. I don't need this or this. Just this PS4... And this gaming PC. - The PS4 and the Gaming PC and that's all I need... And this Xbox 360. - The PS4, the Gaming PC, and the Xbox 360, and that's all I need... And these PS3's. - The PS4, and these PS3's, and the Gaming PC, and the Xbox 360... And this Nintendo DS. - The PS4, this Xbox 360, and the Gaming PC, and the PS3's, and that's all *I* need. And that's *all* I need too. I don't need one other thing, not one... I need this. - The Gaming PC and PS4, and Xbox 360, and thePS3's . Well what are you looking at? What do you think I'm some kind of a jerk or something! - And this. That's all I need.

Obligatory dick measuring Gaming Laptop Specs: Sager NP8270-GTX: 17.3" FULL HD (1920X1080) LED Matte LC, nVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M, Intel Core i7-4700MQ, 16GB (2x8GB) DDR3, 750GB SATA II 3GB/s 7,200 RPM Hard Drive

Riachu on 26 June 2008
Fishie said:
You want storytelling, go read a book.
You want cinematics, go see a movie.

Meanwhile quit ragging on Bioshock, a game that actually gave the player the opportunity to see more of the story as part of the actual GAME PLAY.

Game play, you know, that thing that seperates us from movies and books.
The thing that makes this particular artform more involved then the other two.

I am not ripping on Bioschock.  I have only played a small part of it but it was one of my older brother's favorite games of last year

 



 

http://www.youtube.com/user/InvaderZimGuy1?feature=mhum

Gimic300 on 26 June 2008

Comments like these are taken out of context. I makes me mad.

 

So what if Cliff doesn't want to make MGS4? All I really see him stating is that he and Kojima have two different design philosphies.



Brawl FC: 0774-3927-9239

"Do you think you could get any more spittle on those fishy lips of yours?" All characters depicted are really stupid and disgusting. Any similarities to actual persons would be really sad.

DTG on 27 June 2008
Fishie said:
You want storytelling, go read a book.
You want cinematics, go see a movie.

Meanwhile quit ragging on Bioshock, a game that actually gave the player the opportunity to see more of the story as part of the actual GAME PLAY.

Game play, you know, that thing that seperates us from movies and books.
The thing that makes this particular artform more involved then the other two.

In an age where technology allows for cinematic presentation on par with movies, gameplay should be a vehicle to express a message or storyline in an interactive environment. Not the centerpoint of the experience but rather the vector to delivering an involved cinematic experience.

This isn't 1988. Fun and gameplay should not be the single defining characteristics of VIDEO games anymore. Plot, message and artistic achievement must take a more pivotal role in coming years.