ssj12 said: mancandy said: ssj12 said: Blue3 said: you all are going a bit overboard with this, wii wont have that big a affect. its hard to say if it will or wont. Taking it in the worse case, Microsoft and Sony follows Nintendo's example next gen and destroys true console gaming. Just to clarify my last post. I'm not meaning that the large franchises will die or anything, their gameplay mechanics might change though. Where are you getting this from? What the hell is "true console gaming"? Nothing is going to die or go away. People said this about 3D gaming, that it would kill side scrolling platform games or other 2D games. But 2D games are still being created to fill in the void. It's not what it used to be, since 3D games are better for most games, but they are still there. If everyone started making compilations of mini games, then that segment will be saturated. Not everyone makes Honda Civics, I still see Lamborghinis being made.   and I also see Ferrari Enzos being made and those cost 1.5m each but we arent talking cars. yes side-scrollers are being made, but unlike the flat 2D environments it was upgraded to include 3D features but the upgrade from 2D to 3D didnt remove gameplay elements we know and love but a total shift in the way we control things will if the Wii wins. I dont want to play a console RPG and to perform an attack with the next gen WiiMote using mega motion tech (yes making up what Nintendo would call it lol) would be spin the controller clockwise, thrust it forwards, slash it to the right, then press the A button while spinning around in a circle.. yes I made that all up but thats where things will be heading if the Wii wins. Im sorry but do you really want to look that retarded when playing a game? People already look stupid playing Wii Sports and Wii Play.. how retarded do you have to look till you realize that the gameplay isnt worth you time and energy. If you want a work out, play DDR. Its been out for years, play the Eye Play games with the PS2 eyetoy, their fun and can make you work out more then swinging around a piece of plastic.

It's that kind of mentality that is ruinning the industry.  The e-thug who thinks he needs to look cool and play cool looking games or he's not on top.  Of course people look ridiculous playing Wii sports, because they are having fun.  You think they look dumb now you should see a room full of drunk people playing.  I don't think I've ever laughed harder in my life.  On the other hand, I sat down at Noon and had beat Gears of War by 7:30 that evening.  All that was left was to go online and play multiplayer while 10 year olds called me "a gay n00b."  That's not my idea of fun.  My idea is a mentally challenging 50 hour Zelda experience.  Or playing through Metroid Prime while trying to solve complex puzzles through an intriguing plot and deep environments.  Or playing Wii sports with 3 friends while we laugh at each other and ourselves.  Not that Final Fantasy would ever be that anyway.  It's not like Nintendo dropped all semblance of regular control.  It just annoys me how narrow minded the industry has become.  People who have really been gaming since the Atari days know that what's happening isn't right for either the industry or gamers.

naznatips said: ssj12 said: mancandy said: ssj12 said: Blue3 said: you all are going a bit overboard with this, wii wont have that big a affect. its hard to say if it will or wont. Taking it in the worse case, Microsoft and Sony follows Nintendo's example next gen and destroys true console gaming. Just to clarify my last post. I'm not meaning that the large franchises will die or anything, their gameplay mechanics might change though. Where are you getting this from? What the hell is "true console gaming"? Nothing is going to die or go away. People said this about 3D gaming, that it would kill side scrolling platform games or other 2D games. But 2D games are still being created to fill in the void. It's not what it used to be, since 3D games are better for most games, but they are still there. If everyone started making compilations of mini games, then that segment will be saturated. Not everyone makes Honda Civics, I still see Lamborghinis being made.   and I also see Ferrari Enzos being made and those cost 1.5m each but we arent talking cars. yes side-scrollers are being made, but unlike the flat 2D environments it was upgraded to include 3D features but the upgrade from 2D to 3D didnt remove gameplay elements we know and love but a total shift in the way we control things will if the Wii wins. I dont want to play a console RPG and to perform an attack with the next gen WiiMote using mega motion tech (yes making up what Nintendo would call it lol) would be spin the controller clockwise, thrust it forwards, slash it to the right, then press the A button while spinning around in a circle.. yes I made that all up but thats where things will be heading if the Wii wins. Im sorry but do you really want to look that retarded when playing a game? People already look stupid playing Wii Sports and Wii Play.. how retarded do you have to look till you realize that the gameplay isnt worth you time and energy. If you want a work out, play DDR. Its been out for years, play the Eye Play games with the PS2 eyetoy, their fun and can make you work out more then swinging around a piece of plastic. It's that kind of mentality that is ruinning the industry. The e-thug who thinks he needs to look cool and play cool looking games or he's not on top. Of course people look ridiculous playing Wii sports, because they are having fun. You think they look dumb now you should see a room full of drunk people playing. I don't think I've ever laughed harder in my life. On the other hand, I sat down at Noon and had beat Gears of War by 7:30 that evening. All that was left was to go online and play multiplayer while 10 year olds called me "a gay n00b." That's not my idea of fun. My idea is a mentally challenging 50 hour Zelda experience. Or playing through Metroid Prime while trying to solve complex puzzles through an intriguing plot and deep environments. Or playing Wii sports with 3 friends while we laugh at each other and ourselves. Not that Final Fantasy would ever be that anyway. It's not like Nintendo dropped all semblance of regular control. It just annoys me how narrow minded the industry has become. People who have really been gaming since the Atari days know that what's happening isn't right for either the industry or gamers.

I largely agree. E-thug market for the lose.

 

Bodhesatva said: naznatips said: ssj12 said: mancandy said: ssj12 said: Blue3 said: you all are going a bit overboard with this, wii wont have that big a affect. its hard to say if it will or wont. Taking it in the worse case, Microsoft and Sony follows Nintendo's example next gen and destroys true console gaming. Just to clarify my last post. I'm not meaning that the large franchises will die or anything, their gameplay mechanics might change though. Where are you getting this from? What the hell is "true console gaming"? Nothing is going to die or go away. People said this about 3D gaming, that it would kill side scrolling platform games or other 2D games. But 2D games are still being created to fill in the void. It's not what it used to be, since 3D games are better for most games, but they are still there. If everyone started making compilations of mini games, then that segment will be saturated. Not everyone makes Honda Civics, I still see Lamborghinis being made.   and I also see Ferrari Enzos being made and those cost 1.5m each but we arent talking cars. yes side-scrollers are being made, but unlike the flat 2D environments it was upgraded to include 3D features but the upgrade from 2D to 3D didnt remove gameplay elements we know and love but a total shift in the way we control things will if the Wii wins. I dont want to play a console RPG and to perform an attack with the next gen WiiMote using mega motion tech (yes making up what Nintendo would call it lol) would be spin the controller clockwise, thrust it forwards, slash it to the right, then press the A button while spinning around in a circle.. yes I made that all up but thats where things will be heading if the Wii wins. Im sorry but do you really want to look that retarded when playing a game? People already look stupid playing Wii Sports and Wii Play.. how retarded do you have to look till you realize that the gameplay isnt worth you time and energy. If you want a work out, play DDR. Its been out for years, play the Eye Play games with the PS2 eyetoy, their fun and can make you work out more then swinging around a piece of plastic. It's that kind of mentality that is ruinning the industry. The e-thug who thinks he needs to look cool and play cool looking games or he's not on top. Of course people look ridiculous playing Wii sports, because they are having fun. You think they look dumb now you should see a room full of drunk people playing. I don't think I've ever laughed harder in my life. On the other hand, I sat down at Noon and had beat Gears of War by 7:30 that evening. All that was left was to go online and play multiplayer while 10 year olds called me "a gay n00b." That's not my idea of fun. My idea is a mentally challenging 50 hour Zelda experience. Or playing through Metroid Prime while trying to solve complex puzzles through an intriguing plot and deep environments. Or playing Wii sports with 3 friends while we laugh at each other and ourselves. Not that Final Fantasy would ever be that anyway. It's not like Nintendo dropped all semblance of regular control. It just annoys me how narrow minded the industry has become. People who have really been gaming since the Atari days know that what's happening isn't right for either the industry or gamers. I largely agree. E-thug market for the lose.

 lol your missing my point completely. If your going to use motion sensing do it correctly. Dont make it so that you need to hold something that contains a point that allows the machine to think your making a move. The WiiMote is to much of bad motion sensing/capture. I'll have to find it but theres some guys working on games that use full motion capture cameras for fighting games and FPSs and all those. Its really cool. In the fighting game demoed, you actually kick punch jump etc to make your character do those each things. It also has unrealistic charge attacks where you switch your arms in circles to charge energy to release a stronger attack. Motion sensing should be moving away from the controller and bring you into the games not making you hold an item. 

 The reason why I said the SixAxis is the right direction is because its showing what motion sensing can do while adding to the gameplay instead of making you work for the gameplay. The EyeToy and PSEye are stepping stones that should show that Sony wants to bring the world to the next stage of gameplay. I dont want to hold a controller for a shootiing game, I want to take a fake gun or make believe my hand is a fake gun and make a gun shoot like movement and shoot. I want to aim my body using free formed control instead of being limited to what a hunch of plastic can do. The EyeToy was to early to really bring in that idea. The PSEye which is an improved EyeToy will show what motion capture should be in gaming. Burnout 5 will take advantage of the motion capture abilities of the PSEye and Vision Cam. Games like Eye of Judgment shows a new world of interaction with games that are the next step. The demo of that cancelled game EyeDentity which you talked and guided two characters to do things thats another form of motion capture that we need where the game puts you into the game and you talk to the characters. 

Nintendo is screwing up what Sony was trying to do with focusing on motion in a controller instead of the context of actually interacting game with motion. Truly you guys say Sony is bad for the industry but truly to do truly what Sony wanted you need power. Hence the PS3 being as strong as it is. If Sony wasn't trying to push the industry the way it should go the PS3 would have been weaker then the 360 but stronger then the Wii, and have a $300 price tag.

"It's that kind of mentality that is ruinning the industry. The e-thug who thinks he needs to look cool and play cool looking games or he's not on top. Of course people look ridiculous playing Wii sports, because they are having fun. You think they look dumb now you should see a room full of drunk people playing."

Like when Chard Warden from youtube says that Wii is gay? "You cant get any pussy withda Wii." Maybe playing GTA da bitches will get over my house for some Hot Cofee.

The entire Karaoke industry is based upon people making fools of themselves. That's what makes it fun.

read my post above.. hopefully some of you will agree with my views on how the industry needs to go. And maybe you guys will stop bashing Sony...

I can't even make sense of what you're saying, much less agree or disagree with it.

ssj12 said: lol your missing my point completely. If your going to use motion sensing do it correctly. Dont make it so that you need to hold something that contains a point that allows the machine to think your making a move. The WiiMote is to much of bad motion sensing/capture. I'll have to find it but theres some guys working on games that use full motion capture cameras for fighting games and FPSs and all those. Its really cool. In the fighting game demoed, you actually kick punch jump etc to make your character do those each things. It also has unrealistic charge attacks where you switch your arms in circles to charge energy to release a stronger attack. Motion sensing should be moving away from the controller and bring you into the games not making you hold an item. The reason why I said the SixAxis is the right direction is because its showing what motion sensing can do while adding to the gameplay instead of making you work for the gameplay. The EyeToy and PSEye are stepping stones that should show that Sony wants to bring the world to the next stage of gameplay. I dont want to hold a controller for a shootiing game, I want to take a fake gun or make believe my hand is a fake gun and make a gun shoot like movement and shoot. I want to aim my body using free formed control instead of being limited to what a hunch of plastic can do. The EyeToy was to early to really bring in that idea. The PSEye which is an improved EyeToy will show what motion capture should be in gaming. Burnout 5 will take advantage of the motion capture abilities of the PSEye and Vision Cam. Games like Eye of Judgment shows a new world of interaction with games that are the next step. The demo of that cancelled game EyeDentity which you talked and guided two characters to do things thats another form of motion capture that we need where the game puts you into the game and you talk to the characters. Nintendo is screwing up what Sony was trying to do with focusing on motion in a controller instead of the context of actually interacting game with motion. Truly you guys say Sony is bad for the industry but truly to do truly what Sony wanted you need power. Hence the PS3 being as strong as it is. If Sony wasn't trying to push the industry the way it should go the PS3 would have been weaker then the 360 but stronger then the Wii, and have a $300 price tag.

Lol not entirely sure the point you are trying to make.  Of course it would be cool to punch and kick and have the TV read your motions, that's not really an issue at the moment because the technology isn't anywhere near what it should be to implement it.  That may be the Wii 2, who knows.  As far as the Six-axis, I think it's a huge mistep for Sony.  It's horribly awkward and doesn't sense well at all.  The shape of the controller itself limits the gameplay.  The Wiimote and Nunchuck offer 2 remotes, with complete freedom of motion on both.  This is prefereable IMO.  The Eye of Judgement is awesome, though it's current implementation is too niche.  I'm not saying Sony doesn't occaissionaly take a nice step in developing and advancing technology, but their focus is on HD graphics and larger media, which I don't find a need for currently.  I would prefer to play with good graphics, new (well implemented) control, and deep challenging games.  Of course some of their tech is cool but if they don't implement it in anything but the e-thug type games, then what's the purpose in it?  You are narrowing your genres down to casual rampant destruction and tossing out the possibility for deeper uses.

ssj12 said: Bodhesatva said: naznatips said: ssj12 said: mancandy said: ssj12 said: Blue3 said: you all are going a bit overboard with this, wii wont have that big a affect. its hard to say if it will or wont. Taking it in the worse case, Microsoft and Sony follows Nintendo's example next gen and destroys true console gaming. Just to clarify my last post. I'm not meaning that the large franchises will die or anything, their gameplay mechanics might change though. Where are you getting this from? What the hell is "true console gaming"? Nothing is going to die or go away. People said this about 3D gaming, that it would kill side scrolling platform games or other 2D games. But 2D games are still being created to fill in the void. It's not what it used to be, since 3D games are better for most games, but they are still there. If everyone started making compilations of mini games, then that segment will be saturated. Not everyone makes Honda Civics, I still see Lamborghinis being made.   and I also see Ferrari Enzos being made and those cost 1.5m each but we arent talking cars. yes side-scrollers are being made, but unlike the flat 2D environments it was upgraded to include 3D features but the upgrade from 2D to 3D didnt remove gameplay elements we know and love but a total shift in the way we control things will if the Wii wins. I dont want to play a console RPG and to perform an attack with the next gen WiiMote using mega motion tech (yes making up what Nintendo would call it lol) would be spin the controller clockwise, thrust it forwards, slash it to the right, then press the A button while spinning around in a circle.. yes I made that all up but thats where things will be heading if the Wii wins. Im sorry but do you really want to look that retarded when playing a game? People already look stupid playing Wii Sports and Wii Play.. how retarded do you have to look till you realize that the gameplay isnt worth you time and energy. If you want a work out, play DDR. Its been out for years, play the Eye Play games with the PS2 eyetoy, their fun and can make you work out more then swinging around a piece of plastic. It's that kind of mentality that is ruinning the industry. The e-thug who thinks he needs to look cool and play cool looking games or he's not on top. Of course people look ridiculous playing Wii sports, because they are having fun. You think they look dumb now you should see a room full of drunk people playing. I don't think I've ever laughed harder in my life. On the other hand, I sat down at Noon and had beat Gears of War by 7:30 that evening. All that was left was to go online and play multiplayer while 10 year olds called me "a gay n00b." That's not my idea of fun. My idea is a mentally challenging 50 hour Zelda experience. Or playing through Metroid Prime while trying to solve complex puzzles through an intriguing plot and deep environments. Or playing Wii sports with 3 friends while we laugh at each other and ourselves. Not that Final Fantasy would ever be that anyway. It's not like Nintendo dropped all semblance of regular control. It just annoys me how narrow minded the industry has become. People who have really been gaming since the Atari days know that what's happening isn't right for either the industry or gamers. I largely agree. E-thug market for the lose.   lol your missing my point completely. If your going to use motion sensing do it correctly. Dont make it so that you need to hold something that contains a point that allows the machine to think your making a move. The WiiMote is to much of bad motion sensing/capture. I'll have to find it but theres some guys working on games that use full motion capture cameras for fighting games and FPSs and all those. Its really cool. In the fighting game demoed, you actually kick punch jump etc to make your character do those each things. It also has unrealistic charge attacks where you switch your arms in circles to charge energy to release a stronger attack. Motion sensing should be moving away from the controller and bring you into the games not making you hold an item. The reason why I said the SixAxis is the right direction is because its showing what motion sensing can do while adding to the gameplay instead of making you work for the gameplay. The EyeToy and PSEye are stepping stones that should show that Sony wants to bring the world to the next stage of gameplay. I dont want to hold a controller for a shootiing game, I want to take a fake gun or make believe my hand is a fake gun and make a gun shoot like movement and shoot. I want to aim my body using free formed control instead of being limited to what a hunch of plastic can do. The EyeToy was to early to really bring in that idea. The PSEye which is an improved EyeToy will show what motion capture should be in gaming. Burnout 5 will take advantage of the motion capture abilities of the PSEye and Vision Cam. Games like Eye of Judgment shows a new world of interaction with games that are the next step. The demo of that cancelled game EyeDentity which you talked and guided two characters to do things thats another form of motion capture that we need where the game puts you into the game and you talk to the characters. Nintendo is screwing up what Sony was trying to do with focusing on motion in a controller instead of the context of actually interacting game with motion. Truly you guys say Sony is bad for the industry but truly to do truly what Sony wanted you need power. Hence the PS3 being as strong as it is. If Sony wasn't trying to push the industry the way it should go the PS3 would have been weaker then the 360 but stronger then the Wii, and have a $300 price tag.

This passage reminds me of an article I read about Kuturagi, where it stated pretty directly that he was a great engineer with no marketing skills whatsoever. He always wanted bleeding edge technology, and wanted to push gaming in all sorts of directions. No one is arguing that Sony isn't pushing the technological envelope more than Nintendo is.

But the PC is miles ahead of both. Why aren't you trumpeting the PC? It's had motion capture technology ripe for the plucking for over a DECADE. The available hardware is already superior to the PS3, there are already games in development for the PC that the PS3 can't handle, and these advantages will only grow as time passes and the PS3 remains a stable platform instead of a constantly evolving one. Yes! PCs are the essence of possibility, much more than the PS3 is. Heck, Microsoft's Sidewinder controller was years ahead of the Wii-mote.

Just as Kuturagi was an intense technophile, you're engrossed in the fully emersed, technolophilic world of a hardcore gamer. You're thinking about the possibilities of the future, thinking about technology that may not be quite ripe yet, but looking at it and dreaming, and thinking: "What does the future hold?" I agree, the future is very exciting. But for selling new products to mainstream consumers right now, the future is both expensive and inefficient (by which I mean, usually high-end technologies have not been streamlined. For example, motion sensing technology for the PC HAS existed for a decade, but even now it's still too crude to really be applied in a highly functional and easy to use manner). 

 

I can't find the article at the moment, SSJ, but here's a similar one:

http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=8085114&publicUserId=4561231

With the relevant quotation as follows:

"No, the real problem was that Kutaragi was a fantastic engineer, not executive. He had little interest in the politics that came with the job, and throughout his career made enemies within Sony -- early on nearly getting fired for working in secret with Nintendo on a sound chip for the SNES and more recently publicly lambasting Sony's electronics division for delays with crucial parts for the PS3. He also had a problem with communication -- Howard Stringer recently commented that Kutaragi didn't make him aware he was going well over budget with the development of the PS3. And as the pressure mounted, he became obsessive. Especially in the past year, he had to control all aspects of the business pertaining to PS3. Everything, from when specific PS3 software was to be revealed to the Spider-Man font on the box -- everything was decided by Kutaragi. Why were no PS3 games playable at last year's Leipzig Games Convention? Because Kutaragi didn't want any there. Why did it take so long for Sony to get debugs into the hands of the press before the PS3's launch? Because people were waiting on Kutaragi's approval. I'll be honest, it was more than a little concerning at the time; the president of SCE should not be preoccupied in such matters on the eve of a console launch. But that was Kutaragi -- surrounded by an increasing number of doubters, he listened no one. It was said that his failure to respond to publishers possibly resulted in the loss of exclusivity on such titles as GTA IV and Assassin's Creed.

No one doubted Kutaragi's vision or ability to create fantastic hardware, but his failure as an executive was holding the division back. This is why Kaz Hirai took his place. With the PS3 off and running at the start of a 10-year life cycle, Sony won't need a visionary for quite some time -- now, it needs someone to run the business. And Kaz is right for that. He's a team player and has great relationships with the publishers. He can take things from here. "