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Forums - Sony Discussion - Ars Techina re-reviews the PS3...

MikeB on 05 June 2008
starcraft said:
MikeB said:

Let's say 6 websites give a game a score of 9/10. For another game 4 give a score of 9.5 and 2 others rate the game a 7. Which game would "objectively" be the better game in your opinion? IMO it's all subjective, especially if you include website like GameSpot into your figures.

Gamespot just gave NG2 an 8 when many publications are giving it a 9. I don't see them as being as inherently biased as many people claim.

In any case, I think sites like Metacritic (and in the case of Japan, I guess the most commonly accepted standard is Famitsu) are simply the best yardstick we have, despite the fact they arn't perfect.


I haven't played NG2 yet (BTW the Metacritic average is 81%, so GameSpot score is just about the general average so far). I am just judging based on games I actually played.

> the fact they arn't perfect.

My point exactly but I would go as far as saying far from perfect and thus IMO the scores shouldn't be used as some sort of bible or courtbook to make judgements, if someone thinks the PS3, Wii or 360 has killer must have games, it's probably true from his or her's perspective and there's no way telling if all people across the world would play those games would agree with him or with the average game reviewer.

I think most people here know games which they believe have been treated unfairly or hyped too much. I am European and a game like Madden comes no higher than a 4 in my book, my gf would probably rate such a game 0/10 (a complete waste of time). It's all just very subjective, influenced by many different factors. Was Van Gogh, Mondriaan or Rembrandt the better artist?



Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales

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Kasz216 on 05 June 2008
makingmusic476 said:
starcraft said:
makingmusic476 said:
starcraft said:
I generally agree with this review. The one exception to that agreement is the implication through "ever-increasing library of exclusives" that the PS3 has a solid number of high-quality exclusives.

At this stage it doesn't have those exclusives yet, and MGS4 alone (massive as it is, its from a niche genre) wont fix that.

But they are right about the PS3's media capabilities. I was messing around with a buddy's PS3 the other day and its pretty nifty.

Uncharted, Ratchet & Clank, etc. say hai!

And seriously, you're reading far too much into his comment. All he said was that the ps3 will continue to get more exclusives over and above what it already has. Take the aforementioned and add in MGS4, LBP, Resistance 2, etc. The ps3 is recieving quite a few good releases over the next 4-5 months.

Based on Metacritic (which isn't perfect, but its the best we've got) the PS3 doesn't have a AAA exclusive (other than the very recent addition of MGS4. This of course included Uncharted and R&C. We are constantly getting the whole "just wait until all the PS3's big exclusives come" line all over the forums (which can FINALLY be put down after MGS4).

But whilst they didn't do it with XMB, it appears they HAVE included potentially good exclusives and the potential of Home in their score.

 


Yeah, because anything under 90 on gamerankings is horrible. :|

And both Uncharted and R&C would probably be over 90% on GR if you ignored GameSpot's insanely low scores (8.0 and 7.5 respectively). Uncharted is at 89.8, and GR itself rounds up to 90% when you actual go to Uncharted's page.

Though I don't know why I'm arguing the numbers. The fact is that the ps3 has some very good exclusives, with even more on the way.

Edit: Whoops, mixed up MC and GR. But my point still stands, lol.


 Horrible no.  But "Best games of the generation" which was Kyros point...

 



Torillian on 05 June 2008
starcraft said:
MikeB said:

Let's say 6 websites give a game a score of 9/10. For another game 4 give a score of 9.5 and 2 others rate the game a 7. Which game would "objectively" be the better game in your opinion? IMO it's all subjective, especially if you include website like GameSpot into your figures.

Gamespot just gave NG2 an 8 when many publications are giving it a 9.  I don't see them as being as inherently biased as many people claim.

In any case, I think sites like Metacritic (and in the case of Japan, I guess the most commonly accepted standard is Famitsu) are simply the best yardstick we have, despite the fact they arn't perfect. 

 


 There are 5 publications that rated the game a 9.....there are 20 sites not including Gamepro that rated it below that.  As Mike points out the average is an 81, so according to your analysis of metacritic being the end all be all for game quality, Gamespot appears to be right on the money.

 

 



...

starcraft on 05 June 2008
Torillian said:
starcraft said:
MikeB said:

Let's say 6 websites give a game a score of 9/10. For another game 4 give a score of 9.5 and 2 others rate the game a 7. Which game would "objectively" be the better game in your opinion? IMO it's all subjective, especially if you include website like GameSpot into your figures.

Gamespot just gave NG2 an 8 when many publications are giving it a 9. I don't see them as being as inherently biased as many people claim.

In any case, I think sites like Metacritic (and in the case of Japan, I guess the most commonly accepted standard is Famitsu) are simply the best yardstick we have, despite the fact they arn't perfect.

 


There are 5 publications that rated the game a 9.....there are 20 sites not including Gamepro that rated it below that. As Mike points out the average is an 81, so according to your analysis of metacritic being the end all be all for game quality, Gamespot appears to be right on the money.

 

 

EXACTLY!!!!

Thats my point.  I don't consider them biased at all.  Nor do I think there is a great deal of prominant sites with an inherant bias.  Thats why Metacritic is still a reasonably applicable yardstick. 

 



starcraft - Playing Games = FUN, Talking about Games = SERIOUS

SaviorX on 05 June 2008

A Legend of Dragoon 2 would be the only reason I'd get a PS3 for a long time. That game needed a sequel yesterday. It wasn't perfect, but it was good for what it was and seeing that game in HD or something would be mind-blowing. The PS3's library isn't strong enough yet for me to warrant a purchase, but an LOD 2 would persuade me heavily.

Ahhhh.....wrapped up in wishful thinking.



Leatherhat on July 6th, 2012 3pm. Vita sales:"3 mil for COD 2 mil for AC. Maybe more. "  thehusbo on July 6th, 2012 5pm. Vita sales:"5 mil for COD 2.2 mil for AC."

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pearljammer on 05 June 2008

Is it just me or does it seem silly to accredit AAA status with an arbitrary review average? Since when did 90+ aggregate reviews define AAA games?

Sure, you could argue it may be the best objective way to look at it, but I ask, why the 90? Why not 89? 88? 87.32?

From a teaching perspective, could I honestly say that a student who scored a 89 in my course had learned more than a student who scored an 88? I fail to see how this cut off of 90 is at all useful.



makingmusic476 on 06 June 2008
Kasz216 said:
makingmusic476 said:
starcraft said:
makingmusic476 said:
starcraft said:
I generally agree with this review. The one exception to that agreement is the implication through "ever-increasing library of exclusives" that the PS3 has a solid number of high-quality exclusives.

At this stage it doesn't have those exclusives yet, and MGS4 alone (massive as it is, its from a niche genre) wont fix that.

But they are right about the PS3's media capabilities. I was messing around with a buddy's PS3 the other day and its pretty nifty.

Uncharted, Ratchet & Clank, etc. say hai!

And seriously, you're reading far too much into his comment. All he said was that the ps3 will continue to get more exclusives over and above what it already has. Take the aforementioned and add in MGS4, LBP, Resistance 2, etc. The ps3 is recieving quite a few good releases over the next 4-5 months.

Based on Metacritic (which isn't perfect, but its the best we've got) the PS3 doesn't have a AAA exclusive (other than the very recent addition of MGS4. This of course included Uncharted and R&C. We are constantly getting the whole "just wait until all the PS3's big exclusives come" line all over the forums (which can FINALLY be put down after MGS4).

But whilst they didn't do it with XMB, it appears they HAVE included potentially good exclusives and the potential of Home in their score.

 


Yeah, because anything under 90 on gamerankings is horrible. :|

And both Uncharted and R&C would probably be over 90% on GR if you ignored GameSpot's insanely low scores (8.0 and 7.5 respectively). Uncharted is at 89.8, and GR itself rounds up to 90% when you actual go to Uncharted's page.

Though I don't know why I'm arguing the numbers. The fact is that the ps3 has some very good exclusives, with even more on the way.

Edit: Whoops, mixed up MC and GR. But my point still stands, lol.


 Horrible no.  But "Best games of the generation" which was Kyros point...

 


Kyros?  Don't you mean Starcraft?  

Starcraft was commenting on what the author of the original article said, and the author never said anything like "best games of the generation." That's my point.  The ps3 has quite a few good exclusives, and that number will only continue to grow. That's all the author was trying to say.

And I notice Starcraft ignored my post. :|

@pearljammer: I agree completely.  :)



Reasonable on 06 June 2008
starcraft said:
Reasonable said:
starcraft said:
 
But that paints an even bleaker picture for the PS3's gaming state. Its shown the least ability of all three consoles to "cover everything." In fact, its sort of become/becoming the "shooter console," albeit with shooters that are scoring less than Xbox 360's shooters. Resistance/Haze/UT3 vs Gears/Bioshock/Halo 3.
honestly don't know how you draw that conclusion. My point was that AAA's IMO don't help you win the console race - breadth of library coupled with the right image and brand perception do that I believe. Wii right now has general console of choice in the palm of its hand and I believe that only PS3 can mount a credible challenge. 360 is a great console but its very brand and demographic success will almost surely lock it into third place again when all is said and done. As an example look at this link and check final comment from UBI casual games http://www.casualgaming.biz/news/27507/INTERVIEW-softly-spoken The 360 is the console locked into a fairly narrow band of successful, mature, action orientated titles. The PS3 has come awfully close to getting same perception as 360, but I think the brand and broader pallette of ip to draw on will enable PS3 to make continued traction with demographics whom the 360 just doesn't appeal to. Take the new Banjo game on 360. It might sell reasonably well on the platform - but you've got to figure it would sell way more on the Wii right now.

I think AAA's help win console wars, though they arn't the be-all and end-all.

The thing is Reasonable, the PS3 has given no indications that it will expand its line-up to cover everything.  Certainly the consoles brand-name will mean a lot of sales, but anyone that is both casual and willing to buy a non-Sony console is going to be more compelled to buy a Wii (a point on which we seem to agree) or a 360 (which has more casual games than the PS3 at a cheaper price).

The point is, Sony doesn't stand to win many consumers that haven't already concluded that they MUST own the next Playstation (though I concede this could be a large number of people).  The thing is, as Sony will always be at a price disadvantage and will NEVER have a strong enough lead over any other console to get any merit-based exclusives, there are going to be more and more opportunities for the Wii and 360 to peel away former Sony customers.

As for Banjo?  I reckon it'll end up over 2 million on the Xbox 360, which is far more than I can say for any comparable non-Nintendo title on this list.

http://vgchartz.com/worldtotals.php?name=&console=Wii&publisher=&sort=Total

 


 

Oh I agree Sony haven't made enough moves yet - I think they've been very slow since they launched, probably because they just didn't expect to be on the ropes right away like they were.

I'm just pointing out (in an unbiased way I hope) that due to brand perception they remain in a better place than MS if they get the librry broader and the price point down.  MS has probably put more direct effort into getting more casual/family stuff out there - I just think they're missing the trick that having the content without the market perception often doesn't work, or if it does work it does so very slowly.

Oh, and reading through later posts why do you have a pillow with a picture of a cute kitten on it?

 



Try to be reasonable... its easier than you think...

starcraft on 06 June 2008
makingmusic476 said:
 

Kyros? Don't you mean Starcraft?

Starcraft was commenting on what the author of the original article said, and the author never said anything like "best games of the generation." That's my point. The ps3 has quite a few good exclusives, and that number will only continue to grow. That's all the author was trying to say.

And I notice Starcraft ignored my post. :|

@pearljammer: I agree completely. :)

Sorry makingmusic, I missed it.

At the end of the day, if the PS3's current exclusives allow it to garner a 9 for games in this reviewers eyes, he clearly isn't holding out much hope for the consoles future exclusives quality.  

Thats why that line is the most questionable part of the review (to me).  I don't think he was trying to imply it would continue to grow.  If he were making assumptions about the future, he would have included XMB.  (actually, he did include the assumption Home would be good, thereby inflating the score).

@ Pearljammer.

If you have any reasonable argument why AAA should be condsidered something other than the 90% cut-off, I'm listening. 

 



starcraft - Playing Games = FUN, Talking about Games = SERIOUS

starcraft on 06 June 2008
Reasonable said:
 

Oh, and reading through later posts why do you have a pillow with a picture of a cute kitten on it?


A DMeisterJ shaped kitten............

 



starcraft - Playing Games = FUN, Talking about Games = SERIOUS