starcraft said: Reasonable said: starcraft said: makingmusic476 said: starcraft said: I generally agree with this review. The one exception to that agreement is the implication through "ever-increasing library of exclusives" that the PS3 has a solid number of high-quality exclusives. At this stage it doesn't have those exclusives yet, and MGS4 alone (massive as it is, its from a niche genre) wont fix that. But they are right about the PS3's media capabilities. I was messing around with a buddy's PS3 the other day and its pretty nifty. Uncharted, Ratchet & Clank, etc. say hai! And seriously, you're reading far too much into his comment. All he said was that the ps3 will continue to get more exclusives over and above what it already has. Take the aforementioned and add in MGS4, LBP, Resistance 2, etc. The ps3 is recieving quite a few good releases over the next 4-5 months. Based on Metacritic (which isn't perfect, but its the best we've got) the PS3 doesn't have a AAA exclusive (other than the very recent addition of MGS4. This of course included Uncharted and R&C. We are constantly getting the whole "just wait until all the PS3's big exclusives come" line all over the forums (which can FINALLY be put down after MGS4). But whilst they didn't do it with XMB, it appears they HAVE included potentially good exclusives and the potential of Home in their score.   The thing is I think the whole AAA thing is way over valuded. PS1 and PS2 both sold huge amounts and in neither case do I think it was down to AAA games. It was the fact they had everything covered - sports, kids, casual, etc. While the Wii library is still lacking this dimension IMO it's the console closest to delivering broad appeal coupled with a nice new approach to controls and look how it sells vs 360 and PS3 right now. AAA games are nice, but I question how much they really add if your goal is the 100M consoles plus mark vs a strong brand across multiple demographics and a very broad library of games covering most genres. But that paints an even bleaker picture for the PS3's gaming state.  Its shown the least ability of all three consoles to "cover everything."  In fact, its sort of become/becoming the "shooter console," albeit with shooters that are scoring less than Xbox 360's shooters.  Resistance/Haze/UT3 vs Gears/Bioshock/Halo 3.

I honestly don't know how you draw that conclusion. My point was that AAA's IMO don't help you win the console race - breadth of library coupled with the right image and brand perception do that I believe. Wii right now has general console of choice in the palm of its hand and I believe that only PS3 can mount a credible challenge. 360 is a great console but its very brand and demographic success will almost surely lock it into third place again when all is said and done. As an example look at this link and check final comment from UBI casual games http://www.casualgaming.biz/news/27507/INTERVIEW-softly-spoken The 360 is the console locked into a fairly narrow band of successful, mature, action orientated titles. The PS3 has come awfully close to getting same perception as 360, but I think the brand and broader pallette of ip to draw on will enable PS3 to make continued traction with demographics whom the 360 just doesn't appeal to. Take the new Banjo game on 360. It might sell reasonably well on the platform - but you've got to figure it would sell way more on the Wii right now.

Reasonable, why are you always so.....reasonable?

Reasonable said: starcraft said: But that paints an even bleaker picture for the PS3's gaming state. Its shown the least ability of all three consoles to "cover everything." In fact, its sort of become/becoming the "shooter console," albeit with shooters that are scoring less than Xbox 360's shooters. Resistance/Haze/UT3 vs Gears/Bioshock/Halo 3. honestly don't know how you draw that conclusion. My point was that AAA's IMO don't help you win the console race - breadth of library coupled with the right image and brand perception do that I believe. Wii right now has general console of choice in the palm of its hand and I believe that only PS3 can mount a credible challenge. 360 is a great console but its very brand and demographic success will almost surely lock it into third place again when all is said and done. As an example look at this link and check final comment from UBI casual games http://www.casualgaming.biz/news/27507/INTERVIEW-softly-spoken The 360 is the console locked into a fairly narrow band of successful, mature, action orientated titles. The PS3 has come awfully close to getting same perception as 360, but I think the brand and broader pallette of ip to draw on will enable PS3 to make continued traction with demographics whom the 360 just doesn't appeal to. Take the new Banjo game on 360. It might sell reasonably well on the platform - but you've got to figure it would sell way more on the Wii right now.

I think AAA's help win console wars, though they arn't the be-all and end-all.

The thing is Reasonable, the PS3 has given no indications that it will expand its line-up to cover everything.  Certainly the consoles brand-name will mean a lot of sales, but anyone that is both casual and willing to buy a non-Sony console is going to be more compelled to buy a Wii (a point on which we seem to agree) or a 360 (which has more casual games than the PS3 at a cheaper price).

The point is, Sony doesn't stand to win many consumers that haven't already concluded that they MUST own the next Playstation (though I concede this could be a large number of people).  The thing is, as Sony will always be at a price disadvantage and will NEVER have a strong enough lead over any other console to get any merit-based exclusives, there are going to be more and more opportunities for the Wii and 360 to peel away former Sony customers.

As for Banjo?  I reckon it'll end up over 2 million on the Xbox 360, which is far more than I can say for any comparable non-Nintendo title on this list.

http://vgchartz.com/worldtotals.php?name=&console=Wii&publisher=&sort=Total

 

MikeB said: starcraft said: Diomedes1976 said: Some PS3 exclusives (that have at least earned some 9s) Folklore Eye of Judgement Resistence Fall of Man Motorstorm Everybodys Golf Out of Bounds(World Tour in Europe) Valkyrie of the Battelfield Disgaea 3 Yakuza 3 Uncharted Ratchet and Clank Singstar Online Heavenly Sword Metal Gear Solid 4:Guns of the Patriots Gran Turismo 5:Prologue I think the 360 doesnt have much more than this as exclusives of high caliber ,and less now that Bioshock is coming to the PS3. Only a handful of those titles are over 80 on Metacritic. Only MGS4 is over 90.   I think whatever the US media in general says isn't any true measure of titles being good, interesting and fun or not. They sure affect sales, but it comes far more down to personal taste and the reviewer's opinion may not fully reflect on general consumer taste. For example the hugely popular Wii Sports only ranked 76% on metacritic (my gf and sister love it!). Wii Play a game which sold more than Gears of War and Halo 3 combined, only scored 58%. To me it seems quite obvious some US (especially Gamespot) and UK based media have been infiltrated by some 360 fans judging from some of their reasoning and inconsistent criticism. So the scores are not all saying, IMO games like R&C: TOD and Uncharted are top and Super Stardust HD kicks the arse of any Live game out there.

Do you perchance have a better means of injecting anything resembling independant 'fact' into these kinds of discussions?

Also, I dont understand why you think highlighting the gaming media's bias against the Wii and casual titles (Wiisports & Wiiplay) helps prove an argument that PS3 games are underrated?

 

By the end of this gen, I ´ll be viewing both PS3 and 360 as 'victors' ( victors in their own right, I mean, not in relation to them vs the Wii) given the circunstances.

@ starcraft

I just pointed out reviews are subjective to begin with and are influenced by many non-objective factors.

It's not that I think most PS3 are underrated, I think many 360 games have been overrated and overhyped (overlooking the many shortcomings compared to other games). I think some pretty so so PS3 games also received too high scores probably sometimes due to being rated well on the 360 in the first place and I think many reviewers have been intentionally harsh due to some games being exclusive to the PS3.

Let's say 6 websites give a game a score of 9/10. For another game 4 give a score of 9.5 and 2 others rate the game a 7. Which game would "objectively" be the better game in your opinion? IMO it's all subjective, especially if you include website like GameSpot into your figures.

MikeB said: @ starcraft Do you perchance have a better means of injecting anything resembling independant 'fact' into these kinds of discussions? Also, I dont understand why you think highlighting the gaming media's bias against the Wii and casual titles (Wiisports & Wiiplay) helps prove an argument that PS3 games are underrated? I just pointed out reviews are subjective to begin with and are influenced by many non-objective factors. It's not that I think most PS3 are underrated, I think many 360 games have been overrated and overhyped (overlooking the many shortcomings compared to other games). I think some pretty so so PS3 games also received too high scores probably sometimes due to being rated well on the 360 in the first place and I think many reviewers have been intentionally harsh due to some games being exclusive to the PS3.

Don't be shy.  Name and shame.  Which Metacritic contributor sites do you believe over-rate 360 games because they are 360 games and/or under-rate PS3 games because they are PS3 games?

 

Aren't you tired Starcraft!? It's 2 A.M.

MikeB said: Let's say 6 websites give a game a score of 9/10. For another game 4 give a score of 9.5 and 2 others rate the game a 7. Which game would "objectively" be the better game in your opinion? IMO it's all subjective, especially if you include website like GameSpot into your figures.

Gamespot just gave NG2 an 8 when many publications are giving it a 9.  I don't see them as being as inherently biased as many people claim.

In any case, I think sites like Metacritic (and in the case of Japan, I guess the most commonly accepted standard is Famitsu) are simply the best yardstick we have, despite the fact they arn't perfect. 

 

DMeisterJ said: Aren't you tired Starcraft!? It's 2 A.M.

Haha.  Uni is finished for the semester, all I have left are exams.  That means I am keeping very strange hours studying, and hitting VGChartz in my breaks.

But as it is now approaching 3am, maybe I should head to bed.  Night all, I'm off to cuddle my giant DMeisterJ look-a-like pillow.