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Forums - Sales Discussion - Why do people keep defending PS3 sales?

Darc Requiem said:
nitekrawler1285 said:
fooflexible said:
nitekrawler1285 said:
I would say a large part of the reason that people defend ps3 sales is because they aren't all that bad. Considering the price tag, which is at least 120 to 350 more than any of it's competitors it's still managed the adoption rate of the machine with 479-299 price tag. I for one think that's a victory in and of itself. If you look at the first part of the 360's chart and the ps3's chart you could just about line them up, and i don't see anyone biting microsoft for their sales with the 360 but sony no they are horrible.

I for one think that Sony's strategy with the ps3 will likely be very similar to that of the psp. I remember when everyone said no one was going to buy a 250 portable machine and now they have sold almost 22 million worldwide. Not DS numbers i know but comparing good sales to excellent sales always makes good look like it has something to be desired. But i would look for a price drop every year (just like with the psp so far) and for them to start releasing more nicely priced games , greatest hits titles and possibly a general markdown once blu-rays are less expensive to create just like with saw with their umds.

Not to mention that little beast the ps2 that Sony is still making money on as far as software and hardware are concerned.

Let me make this clear i'm not a fanboy of any system. I own a ps2 and used to own a gc, and have owned plenty of sega and nintendo consoles. I just don't understand the ps3 hate i see here. At least the ps3s don't break down and sony send people crappy refurbished machines that break often on the first day received (i do know that for a fact as i did 360 tech support for Christmas 06 and then some)Not to mention they way Microsoft loves to nickel and dime i still don't understand how xbox live flew. Since when except mmorpgs have we had to pay to play online? Hell after a few years of live service and a premium console it's more than a ps3.

Just to comment on soe of your points, because I like how you present your arguement yet I still think many people fail to look at this like a business. You can't argue it's selling well for an expensive system. The whole point of their being a smaller market for high-end products is that the profit margin is larger. the ps3 actually has the opposite scenario. I think for a product that gives away for free an extra 200 dollars worth of technology, it's selling poorly.

 

Too with the psp, there is nothing wrong with their position, but they didn't create a business model to have half the userbase of Nintendo's machine. They designed a system that blows the DS away in techonlogy, they took a huge loss on it hoping it would recieve the bigger portion of the pie. Nintendo actually created inferior machine, cheaper yet with an actual profit margin designed to succeed even if it failed to sell really well.

Forget about price for a minute, just think profit percentage. The product with a higher profit percentage is designed to profit off a smaller base. The company with the smaller or in Sony's case negative profit margin is designed to not only sell more but is betting on staking claim to the majority of the base. Not getting that is hurting them big time. Think of this too, last gen they had only the ps2, this gen they have the ps3 and the psp and combined they won't sell nearly as well as just the ps2. And they obvouisly combined cost far more than the ps2, so how can a company that expands it's product line and combined loses a percantage of the market be considered a success?(I'm not saying they are falling out the industry or anything but this gen Sony has taken a huge hit)

 


I never said the ps3 was a success or that they haven't taken a hit simply that it's doing as well as it's closest competitor in price and business model and it's no secret that sony will never win at nintendo's game as it has never been playing the profitable console hardware game.

I really just suppose that it's strange to hear these things about one console and not about another who seems to be doing the same thing. I mean isn't that Microsofts big problem too. They didn't make any money on xbox haven't yet with the 360 and yet no one seems to be bashing them for their failures and low sales. So i assumed that that level of sales was seen as fine maybe even impressive given the difference in price. i completely understand what you're saying as far as profit percentage. I've always known that reguardless of sales nintendo would "win" any generation because they are always profitable reguardless of install base. I'm really just wondering about the ps3 hate if these sales are considered horrible. Is it simply because they were kings and now everyone gets to watch their descent in the industry? Is that the only reason no one cares about microsofts shortcomings because they were never the leader of the industry?


Microsoft is in a better position than Sony right now. MS has been making money off of each 360 they sell since about September of last year. The 360 has three times the userbase of the PS3 and quite frankly the feeling was that the PS3 was just walk over the 360 like the PS2 walked over the DC and well it just didn't happen. The PS3's position is remarkably similar to the original X-box in many regards. Unfortunately for Sony, MS and Nintendo will have them by the balls all this generation when it comes to pricing. Part of the reason MS lost so much money on X-box was because they choose to match Sony's price cuts eventhough they were taking a loss on each X-box sold. MS has Sony over that same barrel right now.


Rub-it-in statements like these are (while factual) the reason there is so much defending of Sony on this forum. 



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" PS3 = high budget, elaborate games that I enjoy.
Wii = low budget, low graphics, and simple games... that you enjoy.

 

There. Happy? "

 

 

since kwaad is such a high roller ....
http://picasaweb.google.com/kwaad2/Truck/photo#5053365436139738434

your ps3 is worth more than that truck

damn balla balla, keep doin yo thang!!

kwaad, your nickname now is high roller,since your doin big thangs playa!



I am WEEzY. You can suck my Nintendo loving BALLS!

 

MynameisGARY

weezy said:

" PS3 = high budget, elaborate games that I enjoy.
Wii = low budget, low graphics, and simple games... that you enjoy.

 

There. Happy? "

 

 

since kwaad is such a high roller ....
http://picasaweb.google.com/kwaad2/Truck/photo#5053365436139738434

your ps3 is worth more than that truck

damn balla balla, keep doin yo thang!! rofl

 

kwaad, your nickname now is high roller,since your doin big thangs playa!


Play nice .and read the are you gay thread and click the link.



heh i thought it was being nice compared to what i'd really like to say to him..then get banned *smiley*

its all in context.



I am WEEzY. You can suck my Nintendo loving BALLS!

 

MynameisGARY

theshoe23 said:
Gballzack said:

People only down the PS3 because Sony fans insist on forcing ridiculous conspiracy theories on everyone else around them.

These pro-Sony posts are just getting to be an annoyance and I can garantee you they're the sole reason that a forum for each company was created in the first place.

Seriously, look at the titles of your posts!

- “PSP and PS3 games, are they really that bad?”

- “PS3 not doomed in Japan!”

- “Developers praise PS3’s Superior Power!”

- “How much will the PS3’s price cut be, and when?”

- “Playstation 3 = Most Exclusive Games! 100+”

- “PS2-PS3, same story!”

- “PS3 strengths: Grand Tsurismo 5”

- “Sony games at E3! Yaaaahh!”

- “Sony Love thread”

- “IGN Reviews PS3 upscalling games”

Your pathetic excuses for Sony are either one of the following:

a) This is exactly what Sony wanted
b) There's no shame in Sony being the underdog
c) Sony isn't the underdog
d) Sony will make a comeback
e) Sony has the better games. Just look at these handful of no-name games no one has ever hear of, obviously Sony has the best line up.
f) Sony is for adults because adults obviously like games targeted towards the 13 year old boy / fratboy demographic.
g) The PS2 is still kicking ass!
h) The PSP isn't sucking as much as the PS3 is!
i) Even though Ps3 is losing, Blu-Ray is still winning... relatively...
j) Sony has the superior Grafx! ZOMFG!
k) Sony's potential hasn't even been touched yet.
L) MGS4
M) FFXIII
N) PS3 fans are the majority even though the console is the minority (yeah, figure that one out)

Seriously, is there no end to your pathetic excuses and childish logic? And what's worse is you have the compulsive need to attack anyone that doesn't think the PS3 is the future. You're just a bunch of damn fanboys in withdrawl from not being #1 for the first time in twelve years. Stop making your problem everyone elses Problem!!!


 Like I am even going to pay attention to someone who compares the PS3 (something you obviously HATE, not dislike) to the President of the United States.  I mean seriously Bush isn't a great president but give me a freakin break!.


Example A: Sony Fanboy comeback: Lacking any concrete evidence to refute the gravity of the presented claim, the Sony Fanboy falls back on evasive counter attacks adressing silly and often times irrelevant matters. Most prevalent is attacking the original poster's character and integrity rather than adressing the issues presented in the topic.



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I seem to miss a lot when I go to sleep.

I am a happy PS2 and PSP owner and I have come to the realization that the PS3 is doing very badly. I went through the same thing when I owned a GC. I thought that sales were going to pick up once Zelda:WW came out and then Mario Kart and then Metroid and then Resident Evil. However it lost very early on and the signs were there. The momentum that the PS2 built was too great to overcome.

I think what happened to the GC is going to happen to the PS3. Their exclusives are not going to remove the fact that the PS3 is still $600. It's not going to remove the fact that most people cannot take advantage of the Blu-Ray player.



Wii Code 8761-5941-4718-0078 

fooflexible said:
 

Just to comment on soe of your points, because I like how you present your arguement yet I still think many people fail to look at this like a business. You can't argue it's selling well for an expensive system. The whole point of their being a smaller market for high-end products is that the profit margin is larger. the ps3 actually has the opposite scenario. I think for a product that gives away for free an extra 200 dollars worth of technology, it's selling poorly.

 

Too with the psp, there is nothing wrong with their position, but they didn't create a business model to have half the userbase of Nintendo's machine. They designed a system that blows the DS away in techonlogy, they took a huge loss on it hoping it would recieve the bigger portion of the pie. Nintendo actually created inferior machine, cheaper yet with an actual profit margin designed to succeed even if it failed to sell really well.

Forget about price for a minute, just think profit percentage. The product with a higher profit percentage is designed to profit off a smaller base. The company with the smaller or in Sony's case negative profit margin is designed to not only sell more but is betting on staking claim to the majority of the base. Not getting that is hurting them big time. Think of this too, last gen they had only the ps2, this gen they have the ps3 and the psp and combined they won't sell nearly as well as just the ps2. And they obvouisly combined cost far more than the ps2, so how can a company that expands it's product line and combined loses a percantage of the market be considered a success?(I'm not saying they are falling out the industry or anything but this gen Sony has taken a huge hit)

 


This sums up the business side of it pretty well- especially the point about profit margins. Microsoft has been consistently profitable for a long time, and committed to entering the video game market knowing they would lose a lot of money. The XBox 360 is doing reasonably well (I think the attach rates are really good?), the jury is still out on Microsoft's long-term business here to be fair.

OTOH, Sony has been treading water in its other business units for awhile, and has relied heavily on PS1 and PS2 profits to drive the entire company. So from a business standpoint, they can't afford to lose a lot of money (or really any money for that matter) with the PS3. I applaud them for making a bold move with the PS3 hardware, but frankly their execution has been lacking. I think Sony's original desire was to milk the PS2 for another year, then release the PS3 with better, cheaper Blu-Ray manufacturing so the price point is closer to $400. But Microsoft made their own bold move by EOL'ing the Xbox a year early (bold since Xbox was the last to come out last gen!), and sorta put Sony in between a rock and a hard place- not only with hardware production but software development as well.

Because of competition, the name of the game here is sell hardware at a loss, but make it back on games. To do this really well, you need to sell a lot of units, and have each of those buyers buy as many games as possible. Sony has not done well with either so far.

Nintendo is the odd man out, in terms of comparing the companies. They are a gaming only company, so don't want to risk selling hardware at a loss. They've rebounded nicely with the DS and Wii, and hopefully will continue to innovate in the future- their prosperity really depends on it.

None of this directly matters to individual gamers, there's nothing wrong with the PS3 per se because it's only sold X units instead of Y units, or whatever. Down the line, the install base of each console does influence developer support though. We all want the console we own to sell well, if only to ensure developer support and new games for it down the road- who wants an expensive paperweight? So of course on an internet message board there's going to be a lot sniping and so forth. Who really cares in the end, how many people actually care to read message boards of a web site dedicated to video game SALES?

Sony still has a chance to recover, but they're going to really have to pull a rabbit out of their hats, considering how much PS3 sales have slowed. Console-wise it's not yet a disaster, but for Sony corporate I would say that it has been. The one saving grace is that they have succeeded in establishing an early lead for Blu-Ray. But will Blu-Ray become the next-generation movie format? It had better, because Sony really endangered their video game business by putting that player in the PS3.



god-of-gamblers said:
fooflexible said:
 

Just to comment on soe of your points, because I like how you present your arguement yet I still think many people fail to look at this like a business. You can't argue it's selling well for an expensive system. The whole point of their being a smaller market for high-end products is that the profit margin is larger. the ps3 actually has the opposite scenario. I think for a product that gives away for free an extra 200 dollars worth of technology, it's selling poorly.

 

Too with the psp, there is nothing wrong with their position, but they didn't create a business model to have half the userbase of Nintendo's machine. They designed a system that blows the DS away in techonlogy, they took a huge loss on it hoping it would recieve the bigger portion of the pie. Nintendo actually created inferior machine, cheaper yet with an actual profit margin designed to succeed even if it failed to sell really well.

Forget about price for a minute, just think profit percentage. The product with a higher profit percentage is designed to profit off a smaller base. The company with the smaller or in Sony's case negative profit margin is designed to not only sell more but is betting on staking claim to the majority of the base. Not getting that is hurting them big time. Think of this too, last gen they had only the ps2, this gen they have the ps3 and the psp and combined they won't sell nearly as well as just the ps2. And they obvouisly combined cost far more than the ps2, so how can a company that expands it's product line and combined loses a percantage of the market be considered a success?(I'm not saying they are falling out the industry or anything but this gen Sony has taken a huge hit)

 


This sums up the business side of it pretty well- especially the point about profit margins. Microsoft has been consistently profitable for a long time, and committed to entering the video game market knowing they would lose a lot of money. The XBox 360 is doing reasonably well (I think the attach rates are really good?), the jury is still out on Microsoft's long-term business here to be fair.

OTOH, Sony has been treading water in its other business units for awhile, and has relied heavily on PS1 and PS2 profits to drive the entire company. So from a business standpoint, they can't afford to lose a lot of money (or really any money for that matter) with the PS3. I applaud them for making a bold move with the PS3 hardware, but frankly their execution has been lacking. I think Sony's original desire was to milk the PS2 for another year, then release the PS3 with better, cheaper Blu-Ray manufacturing so the price point is closer to $400. But Microsoft made their own bold move by EOL'ing the Xbox a year early (bold since Xbox was the last to come out last gen!), and sorta put Sony in between a rock and a hard place- not only with hardware production but software development as well.

Because of competition, the name of the game here is sell hardware at a loss, but make it back on games. To do this really well, you need to sell a lot of units, and have each of those buyers buy as many games as possible. Sony has not done well with either so far.

Nintendo is the odd man out, in terms of comparing the companies. They are a gaming only company, so don't want to risk selling hardware at a loss. They've rebounded nicely with the DS and Wii, and hopefully will continue to innovate in the future- their prosperity really depends on it.

None of this directly matters to individual gamers, there's nothing wrong with the PS3 per se because it's only sold X units instead of Y units, or whatever. Down the line, the install base of each console does influence developer support though. We all want the console we own to sell well, if only to ensure developer support and new games for it down the road- who wants an expensive paperweight? So of course on an internet message board there's going to be a lot sniping and so forth. Who really cares in the end, how many people actually care to read message boards of a web site dedicated to video game SALES?

Sony still has a chance to recover, but they're going to really have to pull a rabbit out of their hats, considering how much PS3 sales have slowed. Console-wise it's not yet a disaster, but for Sony corporate I would say that it has been. The one saving grace is that they have succeeded in establishing an early lead for Blu-Ray. But will Blu-Ray become the next-generation movie format? It had better, because Sony really endangered their video game business by putting that player in the PS3.


True,Sony may have a chance to recover, they are winning over the 360 inJapan, 360 has been out 2 years!



Gballzack said:
theshoe23 said:
Gballzack said:

People only down the PS3 because Sony fans insist on forcing ridiculous conspiracy theories on everyone else around them.

These pro-Sony posts are just getting to be an annoyance and I can garantee you they're the sole reason that a forum for each company was created in the first place.

Seriously, look at the titles of your posts!

- “PSP and PS3 games, are they really that bad?”

- “PS3 not doomed in Japan!”

- “Developers praise PS3’s Superior Power!”

- “How much will the PS3’s price cut be, and when?”

- “Playstation 3 = Most Exclusive Games! 100+”

- “PS2-PS3, same story!”

- “PS3 strengths: Grand Tsurismo 5”

- “Sony games at E3! Yaaaahh!”

- “Sony Love thread”

- “IGN Reviews PS3 upscalling games”

Your pathetic excuses for Sony are either one of the following:

a) This is exactly what Sony wanted
b) There's no shame in Sony being the underdog
c) Sony isn't the underdog
d) Sony will make a comeback
e) Sony has the better games. Just look at these handful of no-name games no one has ever hear of, obviously Sony has the best line up.
f) Sony is for adults because adults obviously like games targeted towards the 13 year old boy / fratboy demographic.
g) The PS2 is still kicking ass!
h) The PSP isn't sucking as much as the PS3 is!
i) Even though Ps3 is losing, Blu-Ray is still winning... relatively...
j) Sony has the superior Grafx! ZOMFG!
k) Sony's potential hasn't even been touched yet.
L) MGS4
M) FFXIII
N) PS3 fans are the majority even though the console is the minority (yeah, figure that one out)

Seriously, is there no end to your pathetic excuses and childish logic? And what's worse is you have the compulsive need to attack anyone that doesn't think the PS3 is the future. You're just a bunch of damn fanboys in withdrawl from not being #1 for the first time in twelve years. Stop making your problem everyone elses Problem!!!


Like I am even going to pay attention to someone who compares the PS3 (something you obviously HATE, not dislike) to the President of the United States. I mean seriously Bush isn't a great president but give me a freakin break!.


Example A: Sony Fanboy comeback: Lacking any concrete evidence to refute the gravity of the presented claim, the Sony Fanboy falls back on evasive counter attacks adressing silly and often times irrelevant matters. Most prevalent is attacking the original poster's character and integrity rather than adressing the issues presented in the topic.


It's fanboy morons like you that ruin threads. The ps3 has only just come out, it hasnt had a single one of it's AAA million selling exclusive games from last gen come out yet, yet people still bash the ps3 and delude themselves saying that despite the ps3 having the most AAA games still left to come out and the most room for price drops the ps3 is teh fail.



omgwtfbbq said:
if the PS3 sales weren't bad then no one would have to defend them. I don't see anyone defending Wii's sales.

The truth is PS3 is the slowest selling system since the Dreamcast, and we all know how that turned out.

 It actually isn't selling as slow as the Dreamcast, it's more like the GC (Chart).