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Forums - Politics - US government takes a 10% stake in Intel

sundin13 said:
sc94597 said:

I am actually not opposed to this, although I wish it was done by some actual law rather than Trump's arbitrary whim. 

The tech industry needs to be more democratically embedded than it is. And I say this as a tech worker who is optimistic of the current industry trends. 

As a socialist, if Republicans want to accidentally expand public ownership and justify it as some sort of "patriotism" they can go ahead. Next time we get an actual left-wing government (maybe in the 2030's as unemployment reaches 20% due to AI and automation) we can tie this public ownership to social benefits, expand it, and promote cooperativism or codetermination. 

If the US Government is taking stake in corporations, they need to ensure those corporations are working for the public good, else it is just glorified welfare for big business.

It IS glorified welfare for big business, because that's one of the only things Republicans care about.



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sc94597 said:
sundin13 said:

If the US Government is taking stake in corporations, they need to ensure those corporations are working for the public good, else it is just glorified welfare for big business.

Even if the corporations aren't "working for the public good" and just profiting like other corporations, at least the public is ostensibly benefiting by sharing in those profits (in this case 10% of them.)

Of course that is assuming the U.S Government is itself providing public goods. 

This is essentially the basis of state-owned enterprises. 

Plus as ownership increases and the SOE's are therefore more democratically embedded there is more public influence. 

So yeah, I think public ownership is good in itself and not just "glorified welfare for big business." It's a much better solution compared to the generous loans and bailouts we saw in the Great Recession, for example. 

It just sucks that Trump is doing it for his crony self-interest.

In this case, it is glorified welfare, not to mention an opportunity to make one of the USA's largest chipmakers work for nefarious ends by the government. There is no public benefit here.

This is pretty much classical fascism. This is similar to what Germany did to the chemical/pharmaceutical conglomerate I.G. Farben, which previously had ties to a liberal political party before it was Aryanized after 1933.



sc94597 said:
sundin13 said:

If the US Government is taking stake in corporations, they need to ensure those corporations are working for the public good, else it is just glorified welfare for big business.

Even if the corporations aren't "working for the public good" and just profiting like other corporations, at least the public is ostensibly benefiting by sharing in those profits (in this case 10% of them.)

Of course that is assuming the U.S Government is itself providing public goods. 

This is essentially the basis of state-owned enterprises. 

Plus as ownership increases and the SOE's are therefore more democratically embedded there is more public influence. 

So yeah, I think public ownership is good in itself and not just "glorified welfare for big business." It's a much better solution compared to the generous loans and bailouts we saw in the Great Recession, for example. 

It just sucks that Trump is doing it for his crony self-interest.

I feel like I haven't heard good things about the previous times the US government has done this. Do we actually expect this to be a revenue generator? 



SanAndreasX said:
sc94597 said:

Even if the corporations aren't "working for the public good" and just profiting like other corporations, at least the public is ostensibly benefiting by sharing in those profits (in this case 10% of them.)

Of course that is assuming the U.S Government is itself providing public goods. 

This is essentially the basis of state-owned enterprises. 

Plus as ownership increases and the SOE's are therefore more democratically embedded there is more public influence. 

So yeah, I think public ownership is good in itself and not just "glorified welfare for big business." It's a much better solution compared to the generous loans and bailouts we saw in the Great Recession, for example. 

It just sucks that Trump is doing it for his crony self-interest.

In this case, it is glorified welfare, not to mention an opportunity to make one of the USA's largest chipmakers work for nefarious ends by the government. There is no public benefit here.

This is pretty much classical fascism. This is similar to what Germany did to the chemical/pharmaceutical conglomerate I.G. Farben, which previously had ties to a liberal political party before it was Aryanized after 1933.

How the party of Lincoln became the American Nazi party I'll never understand. -_-

sundin13 said:
sc94597 said:

Even if the corporations aren't "working for the public good" and just profiting like other corporations, at least the public is ostensibly benefiting by sharing in those profits (in this case 10% of them.)

Of course that is assuming the U.S Government is itself providing public goods. 

This is essentially the basis of state-owned enterprises. 

Plus as ownership increases and the SOE's are therefore more democratically embedded there is more public influence. 

So yeah, I think public ownership is good in itself and not just "glorified welfare for big business." It's a much better solution compared to the generous loans and bailouts we saw in the Great Recession, for example. 

It just sucks that Trump is doing it for his crony self-interest.

I feel like I haven't heard good things about the previous times the US government has done this. Do we actually expect this to be a revenue generator? 

Only for Trump so he can most likely sniff out anyone he wants raped and/or killed. But what else can you expect from a "president" who won't release the Epstein files because he knows he'll be IN those files?



CaptainExplosion said:
sundin13 said:

If the US Government is taking stake in corporations, they need to ensure those corporations are working for the public good, else it is just glorified welfare for big business.

It IS glorified welfare for big business, because that's one of the only things Republicans care about.

I don't think Republicans support this. It is Trump's own idiosyncratic position. If it were put to a vote probably would pass the Senate but not the House of Representatives. 

SanAndreasX said:
sc94597 said:

Even if the corporations aren't "working for the public good" and just profiting like other corporations, at least the public is ostensibly benefiting by sharing in those profits (in this case 10% of them.)

Of course that is assuming the U.S Government is itself providing public goods. 

This is essentially the basis of state-owned enterprises. 

Plus as ownership increases and the SOE's are therefore more democratically embedded there is more public influence. 

So yeah, I think public ownership is good in itself and not just "glorified welfare for big business." It's a much better solution compared to the generous loans and bailouts we saw in the Great Recession, for example. 

It just sucks that Trump is doing it for his crony self-interest.

In this case, it is glorified welfare, not to mention an opportunity to make one of the USA's largest chipmakers work for nefarious ends by the government. There is no public benefit here.

This is pretty much classical fascism. This is similar to what Germany did to the chemical/pharmaceutical conglomerate I.G. Farben, which previously had ties to a liberal political party before it was Aryanized after 1933.

What nefarious ends do you think Intel will more likely engage in now than they would as a fully private company or in comparison to other tech companies? Pretty much all private corporations are cooperating with Trump even without U.S government ownership.

As to the Nazi comparison, Germany had a long history of public investment in corporations (before and after the Nazis.) Nazism really wasn't an economic movement. The Nazis privatized and nationalized according to whim, but probably on net privatized more than they made public. And yes, Trump is also doing similar, but that doesn't make expanding public ownership bad at face value. The more public ownership we have in five years, the better we'll be able to weather the mass-unemployment crisis that will be coming.  

sundin13 said:

I feel like I haven't heard good things about the previous times the US government has done this. Do we actually expect this to be a revenue generator? 

Eh, the only recent example I can think of is creating the New GM (and owning large shares in it for like three years), and that probably was the right decision on net (which is why the Canadian and American governments did it jointly.) It saved jobs, pensions, and the U.S government barely took a loss (far less than the social costs would've been to let Old GM go without a replacement.) 




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If Cracker Barrel goes bust, I can see the Trump admin bailing it out. They weren't doing very well even before the conniption over the new logo. Now it's the latest darling of the culture wars.



I thought they hated "commies". I say it all the while, MAGA is the most hypocritical and fraudulent movement ever. If Obama did this they would show up to the White House with a guillotine.



sc94597 said:
sundin13 said:

I feel like I haven't heard good things about the previous times the US government has done this. Do we actually expect this to be a revenue generator? 

Eh, the only recent example I can think of is creating the New GM (and owning large shares in it for like three years), and that probably was the right decision on net (which is why the Canadian and American governments did it jointly.) It saved jobs, pensions, and the U.S government barely took a loss (far less than the social costs would've been to let Old GM go without a replacement.) 

My primary contention with the GM deal wasn't that we bailed them out, it was that we didn't extract much out of the deal beyond the inherent benefits of strong businesses. I think it makes sense in certain circumstances to support businesses in this manner but unless there is revenue generation (which, like you said, that deal seemed to be a net loss in terms of revenue), we should really be able to extract more concessions from these companies. 



sundin13 said:
sc94597 said:

Eh, the only recent example I can think of is creating the New GM (and owning large shares in it for like three years), and that probably was the right decision on net (which is why the Canadian and American governments did it jointly.) It saved jobs, pensions, and the U.S government barely took a loss (far less than the social costs would've been to let Old GM go without a replacement.) 

My primary contention with the GM deal wasn't that we bailed them out, it was that we didn't extract much out of the deal beyond the inherent benefits of strong businesses. I think it makes sense in certain circumstances to support businesses in this manner but unless there is revenue generation (which, like you said, that deal seemed to be a net loss in terms of revenue), we should really be able to extract more concessions from these companies. 

If the government kept its shares more than the period of the recession, they'd have ended up about neutral. Worse than the S&P 500 (which yes, is an opportunity cost) but better than inflation. 

Most examples of long-term public or mixed ownership bring in decent profits. We see this with the various natural resource funds at the state-level (which fund schools or in the case of Alaska put money back into people's pockets), but also full blown SOEs like the Tennessee Valley Authority. 

If profiting is the main concern though, most of the 2008-era investments in the banks brought back profits. The government is still making a profit on Fannie Mae for example. They made basically $300 Billion since 2008 vs. $187 Billion injected in 2008. Hell, the Fannie/Freddie Mac existence in general was a New Deal success. I'd of course prefer full public ownership, but mixed ownership has shown to work pretty well too, and if the goal is public accountability both are better than full private. 

Last edited by sc94597 - on 27 August 2025

Now all that is needed is for  to buy Intel's foundry business for this meme prophecy to be fulfilled.



PS1   - ! - We must build a console that can alert our enemies.

PS2  - @- We must build a console that offers online living room gaming.

PS3   - #- We must build a console that’s powerful, social, costs and does everything.

PS4   - $- We must build a console that’s affordable, charges for services, and pumps out exclusives.

PRO  -%-We must build a console that's VR ready, checkerboard upscales, and sells but a fraction of the money printer.

PS5   - ^ -We must build a console that’s a generational cross product, with RT lighting, and price hiking.

PRO  -&- We must build a console that Super Res upscales and continues the cost increases.