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Forums - Politics - Sydney Sweeney does an ad for jeans, media throws a hissy fit

Chrkeller said:
Qwark said:

But redistribution of wealth is like the most unamerican thing ever. Focusing on this as the main theme might work in Europe, but I doubt it would work in America. We shouldn't forget that US doesn't want to be like other G20 nations. It is proud of its low taxes system. Even if proper healthcare, good education at the University etc. have become out of reach for most of the population. Making the rich pay more to fix those issues isn't what US wants, because they definitely don't want to be like inferior friendly countries, such as Canada and UK.

It amazes me how off base people can be.  Uni in the UK is roughly 10k a year...  State Uni in the US is roughly 10k a year....  the mistake people make is the either compare Uni in the UK to private school in the US.  Or they compare tuition only in the UK to US full room and board.  The cost in Uni between US and UK doesn't exist, that is a myth.  

I also find it funny people talk about "poor" education in the US and all the things we do wrong.  9 out of the top 10 companies on the planet...  are US.  Not sure how the US driving so much innovation when everyone is "poorly" educated.  

Edit

I also find people like Rol funny.  If anybody would know the state of US voters it would be someone who has never been to the US?  Makes sense.  From a talking point perspective liberals have done a terrible job at talking with the average middle American, thus they turned their back on the party.  It is that simple.  Nobody is going to say "gee whiz, I can't afford a house, but we are taking down statues, you got my vote!."  Liberal policies can and often do benefit middle class, they just don't talk about them enough.  

As for healthcare.  I lived in the UK.  My daughter has a serious issue, 6 month wait period to see a specialist...  US, 2 days later.  Sure one is more expensive, but at least in the US I can actually see a doctor.  

Edit 2

And yeah, I don't want "free" college in the US.  For starters nothing is free.  Secondly I already paid for mine, my wife's and two kids.  How many college educations am I suppose to sponsor?  

In many countries in EU, University costs less than 4k a year. Including NL, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Poland. Only looking at England, which is by far the most expensive country for studying in Europe. Choosing UK is Cherry picking.

https://www.statista.com/chart/amp/11058/bachelor-tuition-fees-international-comparison/

In a lot of countries Healthcare is readily available, at least in NL, Austria and Germany. I dont know UK that well, but they are far more like US than the rest of Europe. Anyways I get that US is different from EU and that the US doesn't want EU policies.

In my view US would rather elect another Republican like Trump (Vance for next president) than a Europolicy loving democrat. As for innovation the US has something a lot of countries don't investors with balls who buy up promising startups all around the globe.

Only one out of ten has to succeed, and European Investors are for to busy with their status quo and don't dare to take risks. That's how they will eventually lose the car industry.



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

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Qwark said:
Chrkeller said:

It amazes me how off base people can be.  Uni in the UK is roughly 10k a year...  State Uni in the US is roughly 10k a year....  the mistake people make is the either compare Uni in the UK to private school in the US.  Or they compare tuition only in the UK to US full room and board.  The cost in Uni between US and UK doesn't exist, that is a myth.  

I also find it funny people talk about "poor" education in the US and all the things we do wrong.  9 out of the top 10 companies on the planet...  are US.  Not sure how the US driving so much innovation when everyone is "poorly" educated.  

Edit

I also find people like Rol funny.  If anybody would know the state of US voters it would be someone who has never been to the US?  Makes sense.  From a talking point perspective liberals have done a terrible job at talking with the average middle American, thus they turned their back on the party.  It is that simple.  Nobody is going to say "gee whiz, I can't afford a house, but we are taking down statues, you got my vote!."  Liberal policies can and often do benefit middle class, they just don't talk about them enough.  

As for healthcare.  I lived in the UK.  My daughter has a serious issue, 6 month wait period to see a specialist...  US, 2 days later.  Sure one is more expensive, but at least in the US I can actually see a doctor.  

Edit 2

And yeah, I don't want "free" college in the US.  For starters nothing is free.  Secondly I already paid for mine, my wife's and two kids.  How many college educations am I suppose to sponsor?  

In many countries in EU, University costs less than 4k a year. Including NL, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Poland. Only looking at England, which is by far the most expensive country for studying in Europe. Choosing UK is Cherry picking.

https://www.statista.com/chart/amp/11058/bachelor-tuition-fees-international-comparison/

In a lot of countries Healthcare is readily available, at least in NL, Austria and Germany. I dont know UK that well, but they are far more like US than the rest of Europe. Anyways I get that US is different from EU and that the US doesn't want EU policies.

In my view US would rather elect another Republican like Trump (Vance for next president) than a Europolicy loving democrat. As for innovation the US has something a lot of countries don't investors with balls who buy up promising startups all around the globe.

Only one out of ten has to succeed, and European Investors are for to busy with their status quo and don't dare to take risks. That's how they will eventually lose the car industry.

Let us be fair.  I didn't cherry pick UK.  You specifically mentioned the UK, hence my reply.  

Quoting your original post:  "Making the rich pay more to fix those issues isn't what US wants, because they definitely don't want to be like inferior friendly countries, such as Canada and UK."

Edit

For the record we do agree, the US, especially middle America, has ZERO interest in EU policies.  



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Chrkeller said:
Qwark said:

In many countries in EU, University costs less than 4k a year. Including NL, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Poland. Only looking at England, which is by far the most expensive country for studying in Europe. Choosing UK is Cherry picking.

https://www.statista.com/chart/amp/11058/bachelor-tuition-fees-international-comparison/

In a lot of countries Healthcare is readily available, at least in NL, Austria and Germany. I dont know UK that well, but they are far more like US than the rest of Europe. Anyways I get that US is different from EU and that the US doesn't want EU policies.

In my view US would rather elect another Republican like Trump (Vance for next president) than a Europolicy loving democrat. As for innovation the US has something a lot of countries don't investors with balls who buy up promising startups all around the globe.

Only one out of ten has to succeed, and European Investors are for to busy with their status quo and don't dare to take risks. That's how they will eventually lose the car industry.

Let us be fair.  I didn't cherry pick UK.  You specifically mentioned the UK, hence my reply.  

Quoting your original post:  "Making the rich pay more to fix those issues isn't what US wants, because they definitely don't want to be like inferior friendly countries, such as Canada and UK."

Edit

For the record we do agree, the US, especially middle America, has ZERO interest in EU policies.  

Fair enough, that's mostly because I think the US and EU don't have friendly relations anymore, aside from Nato. These days there are no more issues were interests of US and EU align. Not with Ukraine, not with Israel or China for that part either. Also definitely not on economic (tariff) or the environmental (be it plastic or CO2) part. EU and US also dislike eachother when it comes to big tech and AI.

With the UK/USA that's still different. What is funny in UK though is that higher education is basically free in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

Last edited by Qwark - on 15 August 2025

Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

Qwark said:
Chrkeller said:

Let us be fair.  I didn't cherry pick UK.  You specifically mentioned the UK, hence my reply.  

Quoting your original post:  "Making the rich pay more to fix those issues isn't what US wants, because they definitely don't want to be like inferior friendly countries, such as Canada and UK."

Edit

For the record we do agree, the US, especially middle America, has ZERO interest in EU policies.  

Fair enough, besides I don't think the US and EU have friendly relations anymore to begin with, aside from Nato. These days there are no more issues were interests of US and EU align. Not with Ukraine, not with Israel or China for that part either. Also definitely not on economic (tariff) or the environmental (be it plastic or CO2) part. 

With the UK/USA that's still different. What is funny in UK though is that higher education is basically free in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

In the US, many advanced degrees in STEM are free.  My MS in chemistry was 100% free and that is very normal/typical.  

And yeah, no doubt we are not playing well with the world today, we need to do better.  The US is flawed, no doubt.  But after living in the UK for a number of years, returning home made me a lot more grateful.  The US has a lot of opportunity and isn't near as bad as people make it out.  Just my experience.  I always tell people I left for the UK as a liberal, returned as a conservative (but very middle aisle).  



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Chrkeller said:
Qwark said:

Fair enough, besides I don't think the US and EU have friendly relations anymore to begin with, aside from Nato. These days there are no more issues were interests of US and EU align. Not with Ukraine, not with Israel or China for that part either. Also definitely not on economic (tariff) or the environmental (be it plastic or CO2) part. 

With the UK/USA that's still different. What is funny in UK though is that higher education is basically free in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

In the US, many advanced degrees in STEM are free.  My MS in chemistry was 100% free and that is very normal/typical.  

And yeah, no doubt we are not playing well with the world today, we need to do better.  The US is flawed, no doubt.  But after living in the UK for a number of years, returning home made me a lot more grateful.  The US has a lot of opportunity and isn't near as bad as people make it out.  Just my experience.  I always tell people I left for the UK as a liberal, returned as a conservative (but very middle aisle).  

Fair enough I don't live in the US. But I know that US and Europe are not alike. EU is also flawed it basically is a stagnant bureaucratic mess that desperately clings to its old position in the status quo. The only thing we seem to do well these days is not let our debt explode.

The US is the land of dreams, however if you fall down don't expect much help. EU is the other way around. Yes the weak get help, but there is little to dream and gain these days.

The continents is economy is stagnant. Or as ASML director once said. Europeans are fat, lazy and happy. And compared to the rest of the world, minus the fat part in US that's true. European focus on happiness is making the continent become less relevant.



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

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Qwark said:
Chrkeller said:

In the US, many advanced degrees in STEM are free.  My MS in chemistry was 100% free and that is very normal/typical.  

And yeah, no doubt we are not playing well with the world today, we need to do better.  The US is flawed, no doubt.  But after living in the UK for a number of years, returning home made me a lot more grateful.  The US has a lot of opportunity and isn't near as bad as people make it out.  Just my experience.  I always tell people I left for the UK as a liberal, returned as a conservative (but very middle aisle).  

Fair enough I don't live in the US. But I know that US and Europe are not alike. EU is also flawed it basically is a stagnant bureaucratic mess that desperately clings to its old position in the status quo. The only thing we seem to do well these days is not let our debt explode.

The US is the land of dreams, however if you fall down don't expect much help. EU is the other way around. Yes the weak get help, but there is little to dream and gain these days.

The continents is economy is stagnant. Or as ASML director once said. Europeans are fat, lazy and happy. And compared to the rest of the world, minus the fat part in US that's true. European focus on happiness is making the continent become less relevant.

Wholly aligned and I think that is exceptionally fair, at least based on my experience.  Europe is much better for middle and lower class than the US.  But for those who can climb the mountain, US is fantastic.  Really depends on if a person wants guaranteed safety or wants a potentially high ceiling of success w/o safety nets.  I will have to say, not trying mean, but EU red tape drove me absolutely mad.    



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Chrkeller said:
Qwark said:

I also find it funny people talk about "poor" education in the US and all the things we do wrong.  9 out of the top 10 companies on the planet...  are US.  Not sure how the US driving so much innovation when everyone is "poorly" educated.  

I would say this is in part because the US is a land of extremes.

One example is we simultaneously have the greatest athletes in the world while also having just about the most unhealthy population among developed nations with higher rates of obesity, diabetes, heart disease, etc.

Education is no different, we have some insanely brilliant people while also having a general population of goldfish brained, half wits.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

zorg1000 said:
Chrkeller said:

I also find it funny people talk about "poor" education in the US and all the things we do wrong.  9 out of the top 10 companies on the planet...  are US.  Not sure how the US driving so much innovation when everyone is "poorly" educated.  

I would say this is in part because the US is a land of extremes.

One example is we simultaneously have the greatest athletes in the world while also having just about the most unhealthy population among developed nations with higher rates of obesity, diabetes, heart disease, etc.

Education is no different, we have some insanely brilliant people while also having a general population of goldfish brained, half wits.

Gaussian distribution, absolutely agreed.  



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Chrkeller said:

(...)

I also find people like Rol funny.  If anybody would know the state of US voters it would be someone who has never been to the US?  Makes sense.  From a talking point perspective liberals have done a terrible job at talking with the average middle American, thus they turned their back on the party.  It is that simple.  Nobody is going to say "gee whiz, I can't afford a house, but we are taking down statues, you got my vote!."  Liberal policies can and often do benefit middle class, they just don't talk about them enough.  

(...)

People fall for far-right talking points in every democratic country, just like the left in every democratic country could be accused of not talking enough about topics like affordable housing, and it happens to be an accusation that is usually hardly based in reality. That's why one does not need to live in the USA to understand how stupid people behave and think.

The reason why social policies fall on deaf ears is because the message that immigrants are to blame for everything resonates much more easily. Just like your example, the accusation from the right that the left prioritizes taking down statues, resonates much better with the gullible than the truth.

In fall 2024 it was calculated by economists that Trump's policies would increase the expenses of an average American household by ~$3000 a year. This was broadcasted on major channels repeatedly, and talked about by Democrats. Despite the truth being readily accessible, the majority of Americans still believed that Trump's competence on the economy is superior to the Democrats'. You keep portraying the American political landscape as if the Democrats didn't address the important topics, as if nobody warned the American population of how bad a second Trump term would be. But that isn't what was going on in the months leading up to the election, because these things were talked about on a daily basis. At some point the responsibility for the election results must be put on the shoulders of the voters. There wasn't a lack of good information, there was a lack of good judgment.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV will outsell Super Smash Bros. Brawl. I was wrong.

@Rol, the bigger issue is that the Dems appealed to people on an intelligent level talking about how economic policies as if the education system in America is on average with the rest of the world. Trump just appealed to people on the basic level where he just stated, I will make it all better. The problem with Dem leaders is that they continue to forget, just basic simple and almost too simplistic messages is how you get those average Americans. Dumb those messages down to their very simplistic essence. Most average Americans are way to lazy to research how something works when they do not know and get upset when someone who specialize in the field tell them how it works. They want to believe that someone with absolutely no clue how stuff works can show up those college educated bastards and Trump has filled that role. Once Dems fully understand this concept they can fight much better to win those average Americans back.