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Forums - Gaming - Former Playstation boss reveals the dev cost of AAA games is almost double on PS5 compared to PS4

There are two explanations for this problem that I can think of off the top of my head.

1) Games cost more because they use more resources. What is the most important and expensive resource?

People (x time).

The bigger and more successful a corporation, the more those people are going to cost.  If you have 200 employees working on a video game for 6 years then that is a lot of money, especially if it's an established studio that wants only "the best" on their payroll.  What is the mean salary going to be for somewhere like Santa Monica Studio?  Maybe around 100k?  Senior roles earning millions a year?  Each employee then needs work materials and tools.  Each employee costs even more in benefits.

That's just the start, though, because the more employees you have, the more employees you need to support them.  Anyone who has ever worked at a large corporation knows about the bloat of management, human resources, and support staff roles, most of whom generally get paid very well.  A good portion of the names who "worked on" an AAA video game probably never actually worked on the video game itself.

There is also another layer of corporate management and support staff hidden on top of that, so the real cost would be even higher.

This can't be compared to an indie studio, where the cost-per-employee is going to be exponentially cheaper--though, of course, a success often means all of those costs go up instantly.

2) Games also cost more just because they can.  If you tell a studio that they have a $200 million dollar budget then that is how much it will cost AT THE LEAST.  Very possibly more.  It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.  They're going to add experts in eyebrow animation.  They're going to spend time modeling underwear that will never be seen beneath the clothing.  They're going to add in details no one cares about simply to justify that massive budget.

Solution (?):  It's very likely that those AAA video games don't need to cost nearly as much as they do but corporations waste a ridiculous amount of money upfront then slash costs (fire employees) AFTER the cows have left the barn.  

Many of these studios could make games for less, they just don't want to derail their money train.  Massive budgets mean more money for them and, honestly, the ones in charge rarely pay the price when they fail to turn a profit.  It's kind of a scam, when you think about it.  They complain but they don't change.

This is why a lot of industries use contractors for as many things as possible, because they are generally more agile and streamlined.  They get the same tasks accomplished but faster and cheaper.  Small business employees often work hard to get things done because they are invested in the result, while corporate employees work hard to drag things out as long as they can because they have a cushy gig.

If it were me, the first step would simply be to reduce budgets and force studios to scale back.  Tie management bonuses to budget goals.

The second step would be to spend more resources locating and supporting smaller studios.  If something looks innovative or interesting then I want a version of that on my platform ASAP and then we can talk about developing a limited exclusive.

It's mainly a problem of corporate waste and management that has no real incentive to change.



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BraLoD said:

I honestly don't think it's accurate if you are thinking about the biggest PS5 releases.

Most games still have a PS4 version so they must be costing not much more to make as they are still also PS4 games.

God of War Ragnarok certainly did not cost twice what 2018 did.
Same for Horizon Forbidden West.
Same for Gran Turismo 7.

So which games?

- Final Fantasy 16? Certainly not as well, because 15 was in development hell for years.
- Elden Ring? Maybe, also has a PS4 version tho.
- Sonic Frontiers? Probably, also has a PS4 version but the leap is visible, has more to do with their vision than necessity, IMO, tho.
- Spider Man 2? Don't think so, but maybe.
- Ghost of Yotei? Don't think so either.
- Methaphor: Refantazio? Honestly dunno.
- Assassin's Creed Shadows? Dunno either.
- Death Stranding 2? Maybe, I could see it.
- Helldivers 2? Very likely.
- Final Fantasy VII Rebirth? Very likely.
- Tekken 8? Definitely, because they finally got a good budget, tho.

Most of games I can that have pure PS4 era games to compare I'm not confident to say they costed double than that.

Maybe Activision and EA games?

I think these companies need to do a better job at auditing their books because Horizon Forbidden West had a budget that was over four times the budget of Zero Dawn.

Source for Budget Numbers

Horizon Zero Dawn $47 Million

https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2017/03/horizon_zero_dawn_cost_a_reported_e45_million_to_make

Horizon Forbidden West $212 Million

https://www.axios.com/2023/06/29/playstation-game-budgets-leak



Darc Requiem said:
BraLoD said:

I honestly don't think it's accurate if you are thinking about the biggest PS5 releases.

Most games still have a PS4 version so they must be costing not much more to make as they are still also PS4 games.

God of War Ragnarok certainly did not cost twice what 2018 did.
Same for Horizon Forbidden West.
Same for Gran Turismo 7.

So which games?

- Final Fantasy 16? Certainly not as well, because 15 was in development hell for years.
- Elden Ring? Maybe, also has a PS4 version tho.
- Sonic Frontiers? Probably, also has a PS4 version but the leap is visible, has more to do with their vision than necessity, IMO, tho.
- Spider Man 2? Don't think so, but maybe.
- Ghost of Yotei? Don't think so either.
- Methaphor: Refantazio? Honestly dunno.
- Assassin's Creed Shadows? Dunno either.
- Death Stranding 2? Maybe, I could see it.
- Helldivers 2? Very likely.
- Final Fantasy VII Rebirth? Very likely.
- Tekken 8? Definitely, because they finally got a good budget, tho.

Most of games I can that have pure PS4 era games to compare I'm not confident to say they costed double than that.

Maybe Activision and EA games?

I think these companies need to do a better job at auditing their books because Horizon Forbidden West had a budget that was over four times the budget of Zero Dawn.

Source for Budget Numbers

Horizon Zero Dawn $47 Million

https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2017/03/horizon_zero_dawn_cost_a_reported_e45_million_to_make

Horizon Forbidden West $212 Million

https://www.axios.com/2023/06/29/playstation-game-budgets-leak

I think that's not an entirely fair comparison, because Forbidden West was Guerrilla's first proper PS5 game, so the development costs must also include a lot of work that went into learning a new console, as well as updating the engine. With Zero Dawn, they were working with familiar hardware and engine that already supported the hardware.

That said, that's still an absolutely insane increase. I get that there's certain games a console company might want to invest more in as flagship titles, but that's still an unreal increase.



Darc Requiem said:
BraLoD said:

I honestly don't think it's accurate if you are thinking about the biggest PS5 releases.

Most games still have a PS4 version so they must be costing not much more to make as they are still also PS4 games.

God of War Ragnarok certainly did not cost twice what 2018 did.
Same for Horizon Forbidden West.
Same for Gran Turismo 7.

So which games?

- Final Fantasy 16? Certainly not as well, because 15 was in development hell for years.
- Elden Ring? Maybe, also has a PS4 version tho.
- Sonic Frontiers? Probably, also has a PS4 version but the leap is visible, has more to do with their vision than necessity, IMO, tho.
- Spider Man 2? Don't think so, but maybe.
- Ghost of Yotei? Don't think so either.
- Methaphor: Refantazio? Honestly dunno.
- Assassin's Creed Shadows? Dunno either.
- Death Stranding 2? Maybe, I could see it.
- Helldivers 2? Very likely.
- Final Fantasy VII Rebirth? Very likely.
- Tekken 8? Definitely, because they finally got a good budget, tho.

Most of games I can that have pure PS4 era games to compare I'm not confident to say they costed double than that.

Maybe Activision and EA games?

I think these companies need to do a better job at auditing their books because Horizon Forbidden West had a budget that was over four times the budget of Zero Dawn.

Source for Budget Numbers

Horizon Zero Dawn $47 Million

https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2017/03/horizon_zero_dawn_cost_a_reported_e45_million_to_make

Horizon Forbidden West $212 Million

https://www.axios.com/2023/06/29/playstation-game-budgets-leak

I'm actually more surprised to discover Zero Dawn needed only 47 million to make. It's a huge open world game with very good graphics for PS4 standards. I'd have guessed it's budget was over 100 million 

200 million doesn't feel too much for a first part game. Every unit is revenue for Sony, 4 million units is already enough to break even and the game sold twice as much. The rest is pure profit lol



IcaroRibeiro said:
Darc Requiem said:

I think these companies need to do a better job at auditing their books because Horizon Forbidden West had a budget that was over four times the budget of Zero Dawn.

Source for Budget Numbers

Horizon Zero Dawn $47 Million

https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2017/03/horizon_zero_dawn_cost_a_reported_e45_million_to_make

Horizon Forbidden West $212 Million

https://www.axios.com/2023/06/29/playstation-game-budgets-leak

I'm actually more surprised to discover Zero Dawn needed only 47 million to make. It's a huge open world game with very good graphics for PS4 standards. I'd have guessed it's budget was over 100 million 

200 million doesn't feel too much for a first part game. Every unit is revenue for Sony, 4 million units is already enough to break even and the game sold twice as much. The rest is pure profit lol

Sony does have a slight caveat that its games will eventually decrease in price, but I suspect selling 4 million before that happens is pretty realistic. 

It was more of a Spider-Man 2 concern. Though you then have the third parties game who drop prices faster than a hen drops an egg. 



The Democratic Nintendo fan....is that a paradox? I'm fond of one of the more conservative companies in the industry, but I vote Liberally and view myself that way 90% of the time?

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We already knew this because of the Insomniac/Sony leak. And these are leaked numbers so they're not doctored or part of any agenda.

Spider-Man 1 on the PS4 had a $90 million dollar budget

Spider-Man 2 on the PS5 had a $315 million dollar budget.

We also knew from this leak, Sony themselves were in a panic over the rising budgets from internal meetings and emails.

Horizon also mentioned before also saw a massive increase in budget, more than 3x for the sequel.

It's also development time you have to remember. 

If Game A has a 3 year dev time versus Game B has a 5-6 year dev time you have to understand, even without a necessarily huge graphics uplift, all those people in the dev studio? You gotta pay their salaries every month. You gotta keep the lights on, the food in the cafeteria going, gotta keep their computers/dev tools up to date, etc. etc. etc. You don't get an extra an 2-3 years of employee's time/effort for free. 



GymratAmarillo said:
xboxgreen said:

Sony already only publishes 1 or 2 games a year (not counting MLB the show). 

This is also why Sony is putting their games on PC and soon Xbox. People don't realize how expensive games are to make and the risk you have to take.



Games published by year without The Show, remasters and games they don't publish on pc since the PS5 release:

2020, 4 games (TLOU 2 and Ghost)

2021, 3 games (R&C)

2022, 4 games (Horizon, GT, and God of War) - Best Sony year in last 5 years for AAA games.

2023, 3 games (Spiderman 2) 

2024, 6 games ( Can't think of any )

2025, 2 games (Ghost 2 and Death Stranding)

Sorry, we are talking about AAA games which is the topic of this thread. Please see my edit above and let me know if I am forgetting something.




Soundwave said:

We already knew this because of the Insomniac/Sony leak. And these are leaked numbers so they're not doctored or part of any agenda.

Spider-Man 1 on the PS4 had a $90 million dollar budget

Spider-Man 2 on the PS5 had a $315 million dollar budget.

We also knew from this leak, Sony themselves were in a panic over the rising budgets from internal meetings and emails.

Horizon also mentioned before also saw a massive increase in budget, more than 3x for the sequel.

It's also development time you have to remember. 

If Game A has a 3 year dev time versus Game B has a 5-6 year dev time you have to understand, even without a necessarily huge graphics uplift, all those people in the dev studio? You gotta pay their salaries every month. You gotta keep the lights on, the food in the cafeteria going, gotta keep their computers/dev tools up to date, etc. etc. etc. You don't get an extra an 2-3 years of employee's time/effort for free. 

And there is the problem right there.

Spider-Man 2 ballooned to over triple the budget of the first game despite having many similar elements. 



Lifetime Sales Predictions 

Switch: 161 million (was 73 million, then 96 million, then 113 million, then 125 million, then 144 million, then 151 million, then 156 million)

PS5: 122 million (was 105 million, then 115 million) Xbox Series X/S: 38 million (was 60 million, then 67 million, then 57 million. then 48 million. then 40 million)

Switch 2: 120 million (was 116 million)

PS4: 120 mil (was 100 then 130 million, then 122 million) Xbox One: 51 mil (was 50 then 55 mil)

3DS: 75.5 mil (was 73, then 77 million)

"Let go your earthly tether, enter the void, empty and become wind." - Guru Laghima

xboxgreen said:
GymratAmarillo said:

Games published by year without The Show, remasters and games they don't publish on pc since the PS5 release:

2020, 4 games (TLOU 2 and Ghost)

2021, 3 games (R&C)

2022, 4 games (Horizon, GT, and God of War) - Best Sony year in last 5 years for AAA games.

2023, 3 games (Spiderman 2) 

2024, 6 games ( Can't think of any )

2025, 2 games (Ghost 2 and Death Stranding)

Sorry, we are talking about AAA games which is the topic of this thread. Please see my edit above and let me know if I am forgetting something.

2024 has Concord and Helldivers

2020 has Miles Morales

For 2020 Demon Souls? I know it's a remake but it was technically a new game, since it was completely remade instead of just remastered

Do Returnal count as AAA for 2021 budget wise ?

What is the current definition for AAA at least 100 million in budget? 



G2ThaUNiT said:

Which ultimately leads to less risk taking and innovation, and much more focus on safe bets. This will eventually collapse or we’ll only get like 1 or 2 games from AAA publishers.

We’ve seen what the indie and AA space is capable of. That’s where I’ll be spending most of my gaming time going forward.

With the amount of non-Nintendo AAA games I care about these days, I'm all right with it shrinking. Let the smaller Astrobot games fill the void. We'll be all right.