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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Why is MS dead, I dont get it

Final-Fan on 24 April 2008
XGamer0611 said:
The truth in all of this is fanboys for each console keep discrediting the Wii. The Wii is a force and is here to stay. Sony keeps pulling market share away from the 360 as does the Wii. The 360 is falling in market share but by no means is it dead. Sony fanboys need to stop thinking that once they pass 360 that this war is over. The war will be far from over.
The war is over for 360 or PS3 vs. Wii.  The Wii won; they lost.  The only war left to decide is 360 vs. PS3.  360 has the starting advantage but the PS3 seems well-poised to overtake it ... but not this year, that's crazy talk.  (Crazzy talk?)

Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

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rocketpig on 24 April 2008
Dragon007 said:
rocketpig said:
Aj_habfan said:
Here's why some people think 360 is dead:

1. It is selling the least every week worldwide since late last year, even after a $100 price cut in Europe
2. It is dead in Japan and lost it's major lead in America
3. People feel it has used up all it's big software hitters, so it's only downhill from here
4. People think it's sales peaked at Halo 3, and now people are moving on to the other consoles

I'd argrue those points, not a Microsoft person saying how good of a job his team has done.

1. Yes, it's selling less than the PS3 and Wii... It's also selling more than it did in 2007. Since when is significantly increasing sales "dead"? MS is making money right now and after a dreadful six years in the industry, they need that more than anything.

2. Yes, but it was always dead in Japan. Nothing has changed there. America badly needs a price cut. 30 months with one stinkin' $50 price cut is not helping their cause.

3. Gears 2. Banjo 3. Halo Wars. Fable 2. Ninja Gaiden. If anything, the 360's software is stronger in 2008 than it was in 2007... It just doesn't have Halo 3 but if you look at the numbers, Gears isn't a bad replacement at all.

4. See point one. If its sales peaked with Halo, why is the console selling far and above its 2007 numbers?


It doesn't matter how well it sells in contrast to..itself, it matters how well it sells in contrast to the competition.

I don't think the 360 is dead, but it's certainly heading for 3rd place.


It absolutely does matter how it sells in comparison to itself and its predecessor and it matters how much money is made from the product.

Or maybe companies like Apple should consider their Mac line dead because other companies like Dell and HP are trouncing them in pure sales numbers.




Or check out my new webcomic: http://selfcentent.com/

Gamer1211 on 24 April 2008
Final-Fan said:
I don't know how much good it will do as it sounds like your opinion is pretty much set in stone, and your post reads more like propaganda than the start of a real debate, but I still want to say a couple of things:

Who has said that Blu-ray will destroy the 360? What I heard people saying was that Blu-ray would destroy HD DVD, which it did, and that it is a better storage medium for games than DVD, which you have not argued against.

Who here has said that the 360 is dead? Only the most rabid of PS3 boosters here have said even that it is "dead in the water" which is far from "dead". Next time you lecture an entire forum, try arguing against something most of them believe.

Such as, for instance, the fact that the PS3 has outsold the 360 consistently throughout this year so far (WW).

Your widget example was just painful to look at.

Hopefully, if you stick around, you'll do more than spew "xbot"-level propaganda, since there is a bit of a shortage of 360 fans around here.

1. Many PS3 fanboys claim that Blu Ray will be the deciding factor in the console war.  Go to gamespot and u will see what I am talking about.

2. Umm if you goto Forums and gaming you will see that there are 3 threads talking about the 360 being dead.  Moreso, If you goto Gamespot or IGN you will at least 10 so please dont advise me to post about something that is clearly widespread throughout the gaming community.

3. Yes the PS3 has sold the 360 3 out of 4 months this year.  I never disagreed or stated anything disputing that and as such I am unsure what you point was. 

4. Widget example was to simply prove a point.  Based on the types of threads that are posted its not a good assumption to believe that everyone can understand logic when it comes to consoles.  Spelling something out to me would be much more effective then posting my opinion.

5. Propaganda?  If you could please direct me to your source that discredits or proves that anything I posted is false or does not have fact to back it up.   



    

Gamer1211 on 24 April 2008
theRepublic said:
Gamer1211 said:
theRepublic said:
I agree that the 360 isn't dead. It's here to stay, and the PS3 will not be catching it for another two years. That means it is going to get plenty of game development.

However, I'm pretty sure Microsoft started out this generation selling the 360 at a loss, so that point isn't quite right. I do believe they are selling at a small profit now (not sure if I am right on this).

I would like to point out that Patcher is generally viewed in a negative light on this site, since he is wrong so often.

I actually agree with you about BluRay. I think it will have a very tough time catching on with average consumers.

As for your other points about development costs, and install base, I think you are forgetting that little white box known as the Wii (although you are right if you only consider the HD consoles).

The wii is by far the cheapest but I was referring to the HD consoles as you stated.  Secondly, the 360 was sold at a loss for an extremely short period of time.  Please refer here:http://www.techspot.com/news/23612-microsoft-makes-tiny-profit-on-xbox-360-hardware.html


That article is from November 2006.  The 360 was launched in November 2005.  That is a full year of losses.  I would not call that "an extremely short period of time."


$70 in 1 year so my guess is $35 in 6 months, $17.50 in 3 months...



    

WiiStation360 on 24 April 2008

For the life of me I can’t seem to understand why gamers convey the Xbox 360 is being “dead”.

The gamers who say this are uninformed. All 3 companies are making money and doing well.
People want to declare winners a losers in the console race. It is not really that simple. The Wii was declared dead before it was launched, the PS3 was dead last year, now it is Microsoft's turn. The 360 is 3rd place in weekly sales, and people want to declare them dead, even though they are selling better than last year, and will be much more successful than the original Xbox.
Don't try arguing with fanboys who say this. It is pointless.


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theRepublic on 24 April 2008

I agree with Rocketpig on this one. If you're Microsoft, you gotta be pretty happy with yourself. They took on Sony domination, and did pretty well for themselves. They've gone from also-rans to solid competitor.

Look at it this way, if you were to go back in time 3-4 years, and told Microsoft and Sony about the current situation, Microsoft would be estatic and Sony would be pretty upset.



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selnor on 24 April 2008
Gamer1211 said:
theRepublic said:
Gamer1211 said:
theRepublic said:
I agree that the 360 isn't dead. It's here to stay, and the PS3 will not be catching it for another two years. That means it is going to get plenty of game development.

However, I'm pretty sure Microsoft started out this generation selling the 360 at a loss, so that point isn't quite right. I do believe they are selling at a small profit now (not sure if I am right on this).

I would like to point out that Patcher is generally viewed in a negative light on this site, since he is wrong so often.

I actually agree with you about BluRay. I think it will have a very tough time catching on with average consumers.

As for your other points about development costs, and install base, I think you are forgetting that little white box known as the Wii (although you are right if you only consider the HD consoles).

The wii is by far the cheapest but I was referring to the HD consoles as you stated. Secondly, the 360 was sold at a loss for an extremely short period of time. Please refer here:http://www.techspot.com/news/23612-microsoft-makes-tiny-profit-on-xbox-360-hardware.html


That article is from November 2006. The 360 was launched in November 2005. That is a full year of losses. I would not call that "an extremely short period of time."


$70 in 1 year so my guess is $35 in 6 months, $17.50 in 3 months...

 Hmmmm. As I can recall, because of RRoD MS werent in profit. It wasnt until Halo3 came out that the MS Games division finally got into the Black. And since then they have been making quite a bit. 

 



theRepublic on 24 April 2008
Gamer1211 said:
theRepublic said:

That article is from November 2006.  The 360 was launched in November 2005.  That is a full year of losses.  I would not call that "an extremely short period of time."


$70 in 1 year so my guess is $35 in 6 months, $17.50 in 3 months...


As stated in the article, after that one year, the loss was reduced to a zero loss.

This quote was taken from http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/multimedia/display/20061120132150.html , which is the source of the article you posted.

"Even though it is obvious that Microsoft still has to subtract freight, toll, retail partner’s profit and other possible charges, it is highly likely that Microsoft has either managed to reduce its loss to minimal, or is making a tiny profit selling the $399 flavour of the Xbox 360."

So Microsoft was still lossing money on each unit sold the first year on the market.



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DOATS1 on 24 April 2008

ms isn't dead, that is a fact, no 2 ways about it. but ask yourself, where would the 360 be if it was released the same time or after the ps3/wii? yes, dead.

i don't however, think it would be wrong to say that although the 360 is selling better than last year, with it's library of holiday busting games...the best of '07, and the best online serivce out of the 3, and the best value for money, it SHOULD be selling alot more. it's not, and that is a mystery.

a machine with double the price and half the games is just about beating it, and a console with double the shovelware and half the size is beating it.




dbot on 24 April 2008

--Look at the larger install base: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Console_wars  

 Any chance you can link to VGChartz numbers when discussing console sales?  It's the little things. 

If you are responding to a post or consensus on Gamespot, you should post this there.  I don't get the feeling that anyone thinks the 360 is dead here. 

 Welcome.



Thanks for the input, Jeff.