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Forums - Gaming Discussion - FF 7 Rebirth story is so baffingly stupid.

 

With the many worlds themes, Square need to...

Go along with the many worlds story beats 2 18.18%
 
Pull back closer to the o... 4 36.36%
 
Go gull Kojima and revel in campiness 1 9.09%
 
Explain it as Mako poisoning 2 18.18%
 
I have no idea what they should do 2 18.18%
 
Total:11
Xxain said:
LegitHyperbole said:

I played the game, why would it matter about playing the original. The story is broken regardless of the original. That's like saying I don't have a platform to discuss The King James bible because it's not the original. You don't have a platform to tell others to not have an opinion on a piece of media because it wasn't consumed the "right way".  

Because as stated its not remake. Its sequel. Your playing a sequel to original(actually compilation of FF7really). "The story is broken regardless of the original." That's the point! That's exactly what they're going for! Sephiroths plan is to change his fate and he has to break to the story to do it which was also Genesis's plan. Changing fate is a big thing with FF7 in Compilation. You thread is based on the idea its a remake which is why you call it broken(Its not the original waaaaaah), but because its not a remake your foundation is wrong. There a lots of hints that that remake series is a sequel and only those played the original will pick up on that. Your also trying to apply to many real world concepts on how think time/multiverse should work towards IP that has done whatever the hell it wants to do when these plot devices are brought in. Have you played FF13 -2?. Then on top of that, there still a whole other chapter brother. 

Lol. The sub title Remake really says it's a sequel. 

The problems I have have nothing to do with the original game, in the thread I am complaining about the inconsistencies concerning the many worlds theory that they try to make work in Rebirth but don't seem to understand how these things work. It doesn't need to be scientifically accurate, it just shouldn't have such inconsistency, the main being the reason for the branching world lines. They don't understand what they are at when Zack makes a choice to save Aerith or Cloud he doesn't just branch realities and start a new world line but teleports into a different parallel universe where the cartoon stamp dog is a different breed. All the world lines are their own distinct versions but only branched because of the Stamp d9gs artists decision. That has nothing to do with it being a remake or a sequel, it's just broken writing and a sign they don't know what they are doing. Like the thread title says it along with so many other inconsistencies show baffiling stupidity. 



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LegitHyperbole said:
Xxain said:

Because as stated its not remake. Its sequel. Your playing a sequel to original(actually compilation of FF7really). "The story is broken regardless of the original." That's the point! That's exactly what they're going for! Sephiroths plan is to change his fate and he has to break to the story to do it which was also Genesis's plan. Changing fate is a big thing with FF7 in Compilation. You thread is based on the idea its a remake which is why you call it broken(Its not the original waaaaaah), but because its not a remake your foundation is wrong. There a lots of hints that that remake series is a sequel and only those played the original will pick up on that. Your also trying to apply to many real world concepts on how think time/multiverse should work towards IP that has done whatever the hell it wants to do when these plot devices are brought in. Have you played FF13 -2?. Then on top of that, there still a whole other chapter brother. 

Lol. The sub title Remake really says it's a sequel. 

The problems I have have nothing to do with the original game, in the thread I am complaining about the inconsistencies concerning the many worlds theory that they try to make work in Rebirth but don't seem to understand how these things work. It doesn't need to be scientifically accurate, it just shouldn't have such inconsistency, the main being the reason for the branching world lines. They don't understand what they are at when Zack makes a choice to save Aerith or Cloud he doesn't just branch realities and start a new world line but teleports into a different parallel universe where the cartoon stamp dog is a different breed. All the world lines are their own distinct versions but only branched because of the Stamp d9gs artists decision. That has nothing to do with it being a remake or a sequel, it's just broken writing and a sign they don't know what they are doing. Like the thread title says it along with so many other inconsistencies show baffiling stupidity. 

It’s more a sign YOU don’t yet know what they’re doing. 🤦🏻‍♂️



Xxain said:
Hynad said:

I don’t think anyone needs to play the OG for the Remake to make sense. But it’s also silly to be complaining about the game’s story coherence before having consumed it all. Most of the questions people have will be answered in the final game.

In regards to it being sequel you do. Have you guys ever played Valkyrie Profile? That was both a prequel and sequel at the same exact time. FF7 does something similar but instead it's a retelling of FF7 while outside forces manipulate it. Those outside forces are Sephiroth and Current Aerith(Post FF7 Lifesteam). If it was not clear there are at least 2 Aeriths, possibly more; The Aerith tha t helps you fend of Sephiroth during Final battle is Post FF7 Aerith(OG) and NOT the current one that "dies"

That would be fine if they didn't try to do sci fi that they can't make consistently work. If the problem is, they couldn't convey the sci fi aspects then dialogue between characters pondering things could be used as a place holder for the players questions but they are intent on being mysterious which would be cool if everything worked, the sci fi plots do not work, they are unrepairably broken already, there is no way they can fix Zack physically teleporting by making a choice nor can they rectify the themes of pre Destiny alongside these sci fi elements of potentiality and choice. 



Hynad said:
LegitHyperbole said:

I played the game, why would it matter about playing the original. The story is broken regardless of the original. That's like saying I don't have a platform to discuss The King James bible because it's not the original. You don't have a platform to tell others to not have an opinion on a piece of media because it wasn't consumed the "right way".  

I don’t think anyone needs to play the OG for the Remake to make sense. But it’s also silly to be complaining about the game’s story coherence before having consumed it all. Most of the questions people have will be answered in the final game.

Read my comments above to Xainn, there are things that are broken that they can't fix. 



LegitHyperbole said:
Xxain said:

In regards to it being sequel you do. Have you guys ever played Valkyrie Profile? That was both a prequel and sequel at the same exact time. FF7 does something similar but instead it's a retelling of FF7 while outside forces manipulate it. Those outside forces are Sephiroth and Current Aerith(Post FF7 Lifesteam). If it was not clear there are at least 2 Aeriths, possibly more; The Aerith tha t helps you fend of Sephiroth during Final battle is Post FF7 Aerith(OG) and NOT the current one that "dies"

That would be fine if they didn't try to do sci fi that they can't make consistently work. If the problem is, they couldn't convey the sci fi aspects then dialogue between characters pondering things could be used as a place holder for the players questions but they are intent on being mysterious which would be cool if everything worked, the sci fi plots do not work, they are unrepairably broken already, there is no way they can fix Zack physically teleporting by making a choice nor can they rectify the themes of pre Destiny alongside these sci fi elements of potentiality and choice. 

Yes they can. They can remember it's called Final FANTASY. Not called Final SC FI :). 



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Xxain said:
LegitHyperbole said:

That would be fine if they didn't try to do sci fi that they can't make consistently work. If the problem is, they couldn't convey the sci fi aspects then dialogue between characters pondering things could be used as a place holder for the players questions but they are intent on being mysterious which would be cool if everything worked, the sci fi plots do not work, they are unrepairably broken already, there is no way they can fix Zack physically teleporting by making a choice nor can they rectify the themes of pre Destiny alongside these sci fi elements of potentiality and choice. 

Yes they can. They can remember it's called Final FANTASY. Not called Final SC FI :). 

Exactly my point. Don't do sci fi in a fantasy game if logic is at risk. Splits in logic are far more easily forgiven in fantasy but not in sci fi. Logic still has to exist in your story based on the rules of the world and sadly the sci fi elements are at odds with the world logic and sometimes logic at all, vonstantly clashing with fantasy elements inconsistently, most especially the whispers. No matter what they do, zack and biggs will still be physically telporting at times while traveling in his mind at other times while Cloud seems to travel within his mind between worlds and both pysically teleport then in the boss battle near the end and the stamp dog will still be the differianting factor of world lines, even if it's an easy way convey the difference in worlds visually, it's broken as the artists of those cartoons become the most important character to the story. 

Last edited by LegitHyperbole - on 02 April 2025

LegitHyperbole said:
Xxain said:

Yes they can. They can remember it's called Final FANTASY. Not called Final SC FI :). 

Exactly my point. Don't do sci fi in a fantasy game if logic is at risk. Splits in logic are far more easily forgiven in fantasy but not in sci fi. Logic still has to exist in your story based on the rules of the world and sadly the sci fi elements are at odds with the world logic and sometimes logic at all, vonstantly clashing with fantasy elements inconsistently, most especially the whispers. No matter what they do, zack and biggs will still be physically telporting at times while traveling in his mind at other times while Cloud seems to travel within his mind between worlds and both pysically teleport then in the boss battle near the end and the stamp dog will still be the differianting factor of world lines, even if it's an easy way convey the difference in worlds visually, it's broken as the artists of those cartoons become the most important character to the story. 

Nooo. You have this wrong. A Fantasy game lets you create your OWN rules about these topics and that is what team has decided to do. I don't know how familiar you are with Final Fantasy,  but they have been doing this this since Final Fantasy 1. Go check Final Fantasies Gamefaqs; Dozens of thread dedicated to discussing the exact origin point of Garland and the 4 Fiend Time loop. Final Fantasy 8 had its own time rules. 13-2's had a character trapped in a digital world scream at the top of lungs and za character in another timeline heard her, shut the system down which freed her in that timeline.... What? FF has never ever adhered to real world concepts on time travel/multiverse and it doesn't have to. 



Hynad said:

The remake games aren’t sequels to the OG.

That’s a popular theory that simply makes no sense.

Yes they are in a sense which will likely be revealed in the next game.

There's numerous hints through Remake between Cloud, Aerith and Sephiroth. Between Cloud's visions, Sephiroth's interaction with Cloud and Aerith hinting on knowing about events that will be occurring. This is further confirmed in the FFVII Remake Ultimania.



Xxain said:
LegitHyperbole said:

Exactly my point. Don't do sci fi in a fantasy game if logic is at risk. Splits in logic are far more easily forgiven in fantasy but not in sci fi. Logic still has to exist in your story based on the rules of the world and sadly the sci fi elements are at odds with the world logic and sometimes logic at all, vonstantly clashing with fantasy elements inconsistently, most especially the whispers. No matter what they do, zack and biggs will still be physically telporting at times while traveling in his mind at other times while Cloud seems to travel within his mind between worlds and both pysically teleport then in the boss battle near the end and the stamp dog will still be the differianting factor of world lines, even if it's an easy way convey the difference in worlds visually, it's broken as the artists of those cartoons become the most important character to the story. 

Nooo. You have this wrong. A Fantasy game lets you create your OWN rules about these topics and that is what team has decided to do. I don't know how familiar you are with Final Fantasy,  but they have been doing this this since Final Fantasy 1. Go check Final Fantasies Gamefaqs; Dozens of thread dedicated to discussing the exact origin point of Garland and the 4 Fiend Time loop. Final Fantasy 8 had its own time rules. 13-2's had a character trapped in a digital world scream at the top of lungs and za character in another timeline heard her, shut the system down which freed her in that timeline.... What? FF has never ever adhered to real world concepts on time travel/multiverse and it doesn't have to. 

I'm well aware that FF does sci fi with fantady from the start but they still have to make you believe it and such inconsistencies don't make for believability, FF14 the MMOs plot went absolutely nuts in the expansions main quests alone, they went bonkers mad but it all stayed consistent and believable, even when they'd do a cross over between feanchises it felt believable and they done it by remaining consistent and not having their hands in conflicting elements and plot devices.

You know who does the wackiest, strangest stories and mixes in heavy scifi with fantasy elements, is Kojima and because of his tone and the way he crafts the world in believability with the silliest answers to the silliest questions it creates an immensely immersive believability in stories that if you pulled back for a second and questioned it you surely go, that's a load of nonsense. He does it also through tone also and from the start sets the rules by answering loads of questions to get you 8nvested where later he can pull out insane amounts of mystery and wonder but keep you grounded in the campiest of plots.

It's possible, it's been done in FF before but definitely not in Rebirths case. 



BasilZero said:
Hynad said:

The remake games aren’t sequels to the OG.

That’s a popular theory that simply makes no sense.

Yes they are in a sense which will likely be revealed in the next game.

There's numerous hints through Remake between Cloud, Aerith and Sephiroth. Between Cloud's visions, Sephiroth's interaction with Cloud and Aerith hinting on knowing about events that will be occurring. This is further confirmed in the FFVII Remake Ultimania.

The FFVII Remake Ultimania makes nods and theorizes about various aspect without confirming anything of the sort. 

As for the characters, if you start with an assumption or predefined conclusion you can work backward to make elements of the story fit the narrative you chose. 

People thought the story would go in different directions, yet we’re now at the end of the second part and the story has been beat for beat pretty much the same as the original, only expanded in a way to try to keep players on their toes. 

Various elements confusing people revolve around the Lifestream along with Zack’s place in it, and Jenova/Sephiroth’s capabilities. Things that will be made clear in the third part.

Last edited by Hynad - on 02 April 2025