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Forums - Nintendo - In hindsight, was it always smart for Nintendo to never prioritize or pursue 3rd party support?

 

Was it always smart for Nintendo to never prioritize or pursue 3rd party support?

Yes, it was smart all along 34 72.34%
 
No, if Nintendo pursued 3... 13 27.66%
 
Total:47

For the longest of time, one of the biggest critiques that has always plagued Nintendo is "why can't they just make a powerful console that can get great 3rd party support like their competitors". Everyone for years especially during the Wii U era always thought Nintendo was the delusional one for not trying to compete with PS/Xbox when it comes to 3rd party support, even to this day I see a good amount of the general public question why Nintendo goes down this route of making underpowered consoles that lack big 3rd party games and only have Nintendo games, to many people it just seems like Nintendo is out of touch creating an underpowered consoles with a lack of 3rd party support. But is it true that Nintendo were the ones out of touch? Or was it the general public who doesn't understand the video game market like Nintendo does?

Since the NES, Nintendo has always been very skeptical of overwhelming 3rd party support. Back with the NES in the 1980s it made sense why. In the previous generation Atari gave way too much control to 3rd party publishers to the point where many inexperienced 3rd party companies started making too many rubbish games for the 2600 just to make a quick buck in the new and lucrative video game market. Too many of these rubbish games came out so quickly that many retailers put these games at bargin bin prices just to get rid of them, making naive consumers more likely to purchase these bad games. Many consumers after these bad game experiences lost interest in video games which led to the whole industry crashing just cause of a lack of quality control imposed on 3rd party developers.

Nintendo with the NES aimed to prevent that from happening again. Not only would they have strict quality control standards if you'd want to make a game for the NES, but they also restricted developers to only be allowed to make 5 NES games per year, force developers to buy cartridges directly from Nintendo, and many times Nintendo would intentionally slow down the manufacturing of 3rd party games in favor of being able to get enough supply for their games, making it very difficult and risky for 3rd party companies to make games for the NES due to the expenses of buying cartridges from Nintendo and the slow manufacturing process of producing thei games, making oversupply and understock very common.

While this certainly helped to weed out many of the mediocre developers, it also definitely did limit the amount of good and diverse 3rd party support Nintendo could have gotten if their rules were a bit more lax. However, considering this was just after the 1983 video game crash, it made sense why Nintendo would rather be safe than sorry during that time.

However, even well after the NES, this mentality stuck around with Nintendo. Even just before the N64 launched in 1996, I remember Hiroshi Yamauchi saying something along the lines critiquing the PS1 stating " Them allowing all these developers with no quaity control could lead to another video game crash". Of course that was far from the case, but it still showed that their mentality of thinking that "too much 3rd party support is a bad thing because it could lead to a crash" stuck with them all these years even well after the crash.

A common argument I hear that people state thinking Nintendo is out of touch for not pursuing 3rd party developers is that. "If Nintendo got 3rd party support all these years, there would be no reason to own a PS & Xbox and that PS wouldn't even exist if the N64 got 3rd party support". But I disagree with this. Even though the SNES got the best 3rd party support, the Genesis was still able to take a good chunk of sales away from the SNES. I'm sure the PS1 would have too. Plus, I'm sure a company like Sony with a ton of money & resources they have over Nintendo would've definitey money-hat developers to get at least a good amount of exclusive 3rd party support regardless if N64 used a CD-drive. It would've been an expensive business for Nintendo to be in to always try to constantly outbid their competitors like Sony & Microsoft.

During the Gamecube era, Nintendo employees many times stated that they didn't believe in 3rd party support and that they wouldn't pursue 3rd party games and focus on themselves. They hated the idea of multiplats because they thought it made their system too similiar to their competitors and there wouldn't be anything that would make them stand out outside of price. Miyamoto has stated many times his biggest console regret was the Gamecube because he felt like instead of Nintendo creating trends like they've done in that past, they were instead following them and trying too much to be like the PS2, which was one of the big reasons why the Gamecube failed, there was nothing about it that stood out and just looked like a pathetic attempt of trying to be a PS2.

But to summarize, I think Nintendo was right in their mentality not to pursue 3rd party developers. Doing that would've limited their potential in standing out because they would've need to create a console that would need to exactly fit 3rd parties' needs, which would reduce their market potential directly competing with 2 other similar consoles. It would've also been far less profitable for Nintendo to be in that business, it would've required Nintendo to attempt to outbid wealthy companies like Sony & Microsoft for certain 3rd party games and if Nintendo had 3rd party games as the forefront of their consoles, that would've reduced the attention their own games get which would reduce their profits even more since 3rd party games make less money for Nintendo than selling 1st party games. 

I think the Switch is the perfect example in showing how Nintendo was right all along. The Switch alone could sell almost as much as the PS4 & Xbox One sold combined and potentially more than PS5 & Series X combined sales. Along with making more profit than both consoles combined thanks in part due to their higher dependence of 1st party sales, more profitable hardware thanks to less competition by standing out, and of course just by selling more hardware. I highly doubt a competitive console with 3rd party support would've done anywhere close to Switch numbers, probably less than half of what the Switch has sold with far more expenses in that business.



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It was the most powerful strategic move which nobody else could pull off, and makes Nintendo near-immune to any kind of 3rd party pressure or moneyhatting. I would say it was inpeccable work built over a number of years with hard work, almost even genius.



Nintendo does not weed out the bad developers anymore. They barely have any quality control for any games on the Switch except their own. Just look at the Eshop. Its filled with garbage.



I believe the most brilliant thing they have done is build a strong first-party line of games that can have sequel after sequel and not need to use triple-A production costs. Even in their worst consoles, they sold a crap load of copies of their first-party games.



I never understood the "Nintendo doesn't support third party developers" argument... What exactly are they doing or not doing? It's up to the third party developers to decide if they want to write games for Nintendo platforms.

In reality, the Switch is considered very friendly to Indie developers and has a huge library of that. So this is more about games like "Call of Duty" or "Spiderman".

People who want to play "Call of Duty" just aren't going to be buying "Call of Duty" on Nintendo...



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Will we ever see GTA6 on any Nintendo system?



To quote Mephiles the Dark, the answer is yes AND no.

Part I - Mistakes 

Spoiler!

As a hardware developer, you should always try to make it a point to appeal to 3rd party developers regardless of what you want to do with your system. Because there are going to be stretches, especially when you're making that next gen leap, something Nintendo has struggled with at times (N64 -> GC; DS -> 3DS; Wii -> Wii U), where your own 1st party software is not going to be there. The release schedule will dry up a bit or worse, you rush the development of your games to make sure the release schedule isn't dry and the quality of those games suffer as a result. As such, you need to make sure your hardware is appealing and attractive to 3rd party developers as well as doing what you can to support and market their games on your system so that they can take the pressure off you and carry the torch for you for a bit until you've got your feet under you and are ready to take the torch back and lead the sprint yourself!

The biggest mistake Nintendo (Yamauchi) ever made, even more than the Wii U's flop, was going with cartridges with the N64 instead of CDs, alienating 3rd parties to the point of driving them in mass towards the PlayStation - Square, in particular, as Final Fantasy VII - which was originally supposed to be an N64 game, got the opportunity to really shine and prosper on the PS1 and with Sony's big bucks and marketing behind them that they NEVER would have had if they stuck with Nintendo. And that's the direct consequence of them showing little regard or consideration for 3rd parties on the NES and ESPECIALLY the SNES. They prioritized themselves and pushed their "My Way or the Highway" mentality on them for those two systems. As OP stated, it was necessary earlier on following the crash of 83. But by the time of the early-mid 90s, when SEGA and especially Sony entered the fray and provided viable alternatives. Nintendo's practices, little regard, and sometimes outright dickish behavior towards 3rd parties was just completely unnecessary, and it finally bit them in the ass when they left in droves during the N64's life span and that system suffered as a result. A mistake they tried to rectify with the GameCube, but at that point, the damage was done and Sony firmly had 3rd parties in their grasp and Microsoft had stepped in as a viable option as well.

So, while I can see what Miyamoto is saying in regard to his regrets with the GameCube, I don't entirely agree with it. At that point, Nintendo had finally realized that in order for their system to be viable, they needed to have strong 3rd party support, and they couldn't just rely solely on themselves. Them trying to get back in 3rd parties' good graces with the GameCube was absolutely the right decision. The problem was that the damage was done at that point. The writing was on the wall and Sony was the darling hardware developer now with Microsoft being a favorable partner too. And no matter how hard Nintendo tried, they were not going to win those developers back from Sony and Microsoft. Their more limited funds compared to those two giants being a key reason like OP stated - Nintendo didn't and STILL doesn't have the room and cushion to sell high-end premium hardware at a loss like Sony and Microsoft do. But even if they did, 3rd parties would have still leaned with Sony and Microsoft just because their games had found a solid audience and support on those platforms that they were never going to get on Nintendo. Because at the end of the day - Then, Now, and Forever, Nintendo's #1 priority was, is, and always will be... Nintendo! If Final Fantasty VII, and subsequently, VIII and IX, had stayed on the N64, however those games turned out and even if they still went on to be the great games they were, they would NEVER have reached the heights it did on the PS1 because Nintendo was NEVER going to push those game over Super Mario 64, Mario Kart 64, GoldenEye, Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, Donkey Kong 64, Diddy Kong Racing, Banjo Kazooie, Super Smash Bros, etc. No matter what, Nintendo will always put themselves first. And EVERY 3rd party publisher knows that and that's why even now, they prioritize Sony and Microsoft because they know they'll get far more support and backing from them than they will from Nintendo.

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Part II - Changes

Spoiler!

And early on in the GameCube's life cycle, Nintendo realized that was the case and that they were fighting a losing battle trying to beat Sony and Microsoft at their own game. It wasn't going to happen. So that was when Nintendo had to make a change in their strategy and pivot more towards trying to be innovative, revolutionary, and make their hardware stand out from the competition. While also developing their games in unique ways catered towards that hardware to really make them stand out and still look attractive. And that's what led to the DS and Wii.

And... it worked! Before the Switch, that Wii/DS era was hands down the most successful period in Nintendo's history. Because instead of trying to chase trends, fight a losing battle, maybe sell more expensive hardware at a loss, and be less like themselves to try to court 3rd parties who weren't all that interested. They doubled down! They made themselves even MORE unique and out-of-the-box and managed to WOW the general audience. To the point where those 3rd parties, even though they were doing just fine for themselves on PlayStation and Xbox... They couldn't just ignore what Nintendo was doing with their systems, because there was an audience and opportunities there too! And to just ignore them would have been to leave a lot of money on the table! So Nintendo, seemingly against all odds, found a way to have their cake and eat it too! They were able to get 3rd parties to come back and support their system, even if it's not quite on the level of their support for Sony and Microsoft, it's still there and it's that much more money for them to make! While also making sure their games are still the top priority and main attractions and reasons why people buy their systems, AND make sure that they can still sell those systems at a profit so now they make more money than they ever have before. It's a win-win for everybody!

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Part III - Risks and Rewards

Spoiler!

However, the problem with beating to your own drum is that it is a double-edged sword. When it works, it REALLY works and you reap ALL the rewards and benefits. As was the case with the DS and Wii.

And when it DOESN'T work... It comes back to bite you in the ass. Which is exactly what happened to Nintendo with the Wii U and to a much lesser degree, the 3DS. 

For the first time in their history as a game developer, maybe ever (to my knowledge) Nintendo was LOSING money. Posting operating losses. All because they made the same gamble on the Wii U as they did the Wii, only this time it backfired tremendously. All because they misread the market and made the mistake of leaning too much on the casual market that carried the Wii, and to much lesser extent, the DS, in the 7th gen. A market that had since then migrated to the mobile market and weren't all that interested in dedicated gaming. So the audience that was so captivated and enthralled by the Wii and DS... didn't really care all that much or just were confused (that's another topic for another day) by the Wii U and 3DS, and the drastic drops (100m to 13m and 154m to 75m) reflect that.

To make matters worse, Nintendo had severely underestimated just how demanding HD development is and so they ran into the very issue I mentioned earlier about not being able to maintain their release schedule, leading to some very dry and barren lineups... An issue that 3rd party developers could easily help with... The problem with THAT is, they're only as interested as in your gimmicky system for as much as the system itself is profitable and lucrative... Which is to say the Wii U was... Not at all. And neither were these developers once they saw the writing on the wall. So Nintendo was on their own with a flop of a system they had no hope of redeeming. 

HOWEVER, it is in that failure where their decision to double down and bet on themselves was starting to pay dividends. Despite the Wii U's overall hardware and software sales being less than that of the GameCube, the attach rate, especially for Nintendo's own first party games, were noticeably stronger and eye-catching. 13 million consoles sold, but over 8 million copies of Mario Kart 8, an attach rate of around 60%. And the 3DS, despite selling less hardware, and if I had to bet, less 3rd party support, than the Game Boy Advance, still managed to sell more software, thanks in large part to Nintendo's own offerings carrying the load.

So even though they had fallen flat on their face and were in the midst of dusting themselves off, Nintendo still had THAT to hang their hat on and be proud of. The fact that they had managed to build their loyal base and following that will invest and ride with them as long as the quality of their games are still top-notch. Which is a direct result of them prioritizing themselves over 3rd parties. 

That just left the matter of figuring out where they went wrong with the Wii U and trying to make sure they right the ship with their next system.

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Part IV - Nintendo Switches It Up

Spoiler!

So Nintendo, trying to cleanse themselves of the stench that was the Wii U's failure. Had to figure out where they succeeded with the Wii/DS while also figuring out where they went wrong with the Wii U/3DS. While also trying to repeat what they managed to each back in the mid-2000s of standing out in a way that made them extremely attractive, lucrative, and desired when the Wii/DS hit the market. After many considerations, evaluations, and planning, the end result was what will now go down as the best-selling Nintendo system of all-time, and what, at the time of this post, has a very real chance at becoming the greatest selling system EVER - The Nintendo Switch.

And they did it by, once again, doubling down and betting on themselves and their way of doing things, while making sure not to repeat the mistakes they made with the Wii U/3DS. And now as we are on the verge of the reveal and eventual release of Switch 2. Nintendo's prospects look brighter than they have ever been! And that can be seen, not only in their massive hardware sales for the Switch, but even MORESO in their software sales on the system, ESPECIALLY their own software. With a Top 10 list where 9 of the 10 games have sold over 20 million copies each and the entire Top 20 have sold over 12 million, ALL 1st party games - Nintendo's digging their heels in and putting themselves first has never paid off more gloriously for them than it has with this system. And it's not just them, but 3rd parties, like they did with the Wii/DS have come around and are wanting to take their own slice of that Switch pie. Only THIS time, it's on a much more dedicated, concentrated level than the Wii/DS. We have seen 3rd parties, more and more, try to make Switch versions for their major releases alongside their usual PlayStation and Xbox versions. And with the Switch proving to be a huge success and draw amongst dedicated gamers as much, if not more, than casual gamers, that investment is paying off for them as well. Stardew Valley and Monster Hunter Rise most noticeably being among the best-selling 3rd party games on a Nintendo system.

Yet again, Nintendo has found a way to have their cake and eat it too. Only THIS time, it looks like that cake won't be running out for the foreseeable future.

------

Part V - Conclusion

To make a VERY long story short: Nintendo prioritizing themselves over 3rd parties and not pursuing their support as much as Sony or Microsoft has paid off gloriously at their best and bit them hard in the ass at their worst. Their decisions throughout their history has placed them in a position where they have more control over their success and failure than either Sony or Microsoft do. And in the end, they managed to get exactly what they wanted; Be the stars of their own show. But now also have enough room and space for 3rd parties to have success on their platforms as well. Basically where they were with the SNES, only without the dick-headed practices and guidelines.

So if I have to give a straightforward answer, I would say... Yes.

Last edited by PAOerfulone - on 09 January 2025

BFR said:

Will we ever see GTA6 on any Nintendo system?

The real question is would anyone who wants to play GTA6 buy it on Switch rather than PS5?



OneTime said:
BFR said:

Will we ever see GTA6 on any Nintendo system?

The real question is would anyone who wants to play GTA6 buy it on Switch rather than PS5?

I would, because I don't care one bit about grfxx and prefer portability.



唯一無二のRolStoppableに認められた、VGCの任天堂ファミリーの正式メンバーです。光栄に思います。

They prioritized it once: For the launch of the Wii U.

The Result: Nintendo's worst-selling home console because all they did were shoddy ports or second-rate titles, not system sellers, hence why the sales cratered and never recovered. Afterwards, Nintendo had to do it all alone, with just the help of indie developers and the occasional Ubisoft title.

So yes, it was smart, but only to some degree. Nintendo needs to bring their first-party line-up and can (and should!) go from there to bring all the other publishers on board, because only having one of the two components (AAA publishers or first-party titles) is poison for Nintendo console sales.