By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Politics Discussion - What is a "Woke" Game

sundin13 said:

I also just want to say, if someone makes a game with a black lesbian protagonist just because they truly want to, do you have any doubt that there would be tons of people saying it is woke, DEI trash?  

This. Let's get real: the context for a game's lead character being a black lesbian would not matter unless it were some schoolgirl fetish type game (which would be considered defensible). She'd be considered anti-male because she is female, doubly so because she is gay, and anti-white because she isn't white, and that is all. The rest is just lame, bullshit excuses for that attitude. Therefore, this hypothetical game must never be allowed onto the market. We all know that that's exactly the attitude and how it is.



Around the Network
KLXVER said:
PDF said:

If a game is not clearly made by men for men then it's woke. By men I mean sport loving, gun loving, straight men that a threatened by anything different in their lives.

Follow this and you too will know what to be angered by. Hope I helped!

Can you even name one game with that kind of protagonist?

1. You shouldn't take my comment too seriously.

But sure, Duke Nukem. Also you can totally have a female protagonist and not be woke. She just needs to be eye candy like Lara Croft in the OG Tomb Raiders.  

Last edited by PDF - 6 days ago

 

My Real Redneck friends


JackHandy said:
sundin13 said:

As for your point about exclusion, I don't think that makes any sense. I am arguing in favor of diversity, which means we aren't excluding straight white men, we are just including more groups in the room. If you think hiring a black person to help reflect the black culture that a game is attempting to portray is comparable to segregation, I don't think I can help you...

I think you're missing my point.

If you have two applicants, one straight white male and one black lesbian, and the black lesbian is less qualified for the job, but you hire her over the straight white male simply because you want a more diverse work environment, you are committing two sins.

One, you are intentionally hiring lesser talent, thus lowering the level of output for your company and guaranteeing a subpar product.  

And two, you are hiring based on someone's identity... which is exactly the same as hiring someone simply because they are white. You can not hire based on identity and not have it be exclusionary. If you hire a black person because they are black, you are not hiring a white person because they are white. If you hire a white person because they are white, you are not hiring a black person because they are black. One comes with the other. There is no way around it.

Do you understand, now?

The only fair way to hire people is to do it based on qualifications and merit.

First of all, hiring often doesn't really work like this. You often have numerous qualified candidates and any choice of who is the "best" candidate is just subjective. This goes double for creative applicants. It doesn't really make sense to fall back onto test scores and GPA so any choice has to be informed by those intangibles. 

And one of those incredibly important intangibles is who that person is and what experiences they bring to the table. 

Filling a writers room with only the "best" candidates could be creating a bad writers room. Diversity is an integral part of a writers room, because of what it can add to a game, so part of what may make that black lesbian the "most qualified" is that she is a black lesbian. With that she brings experiences that that straight white male likely didn't have and with that she adds something to the writers room that he just can't. 

She can very well be the most qualified candidate not despite the fact that she is a black lesbian but because she is a black lesbian. 

See, I used to play Magic the Gathering and I was kind of bad. My goal when building a deck was to grab all of the best cards I had and put them all together, and obviously that would give me the best shot of winning right? Well, not really. You have to worry about synergies and vision and having cards which fill in gaps. The 10 best cards in Magic the Gathering could all be in the same deck and get destroyed by a bunch of mediocre commons if the commons worked together better. Making games in some ways works similarly. Someone can be really good, but still not be a fit. That could be because they don't synergize well or their strengths are already covered by someone else on the team. 

An individual's identity isn't just some meaningless flavor text written on the bottom of a card, it brings with it experiences which can be invaluable to a project. I think that is a big part of what you are missing. You fail to see an individual's identity and experiences as something that they can contribute and as such I understand the kneejerk to be concerned with diversity. The problem is, when you try to ignore or throw away a person's identity, you miss the value it brings. 

EDIT: I just thought of another comparison I wanted to add. Say a game studio is making a game about growing up in Brooklyn. They are hiring writers and one writer comes in and says "Oh, thats cool. I actually grew up in Brooklyn," would it not be reasonable to say "Hm, because of this person's lived experiences with this topic, I feel they can add something that another person without those experiences may not be able to add"? It is the same with other parts of a person's identity. 

Last edited by sundin13 - on 15 December 2024

PDF said:
KLXVER said:

Can you even name one game with that kind of protagonist?

1. You shouldn't take my comment too seriously.

But sure, Duke Nukem. Also you can totally have a female protagonist and not be woke. She just needs to eye candy like Lara Croft in the OG Tomb Raiders.  

But she HAS to be hot for me to not be woke? Like I cant like Abby from The Last Of Us Part 2 and still not be woke?



KLXVER said:
PDF said:

1. You shouldn't take my comment too seriously.

But sure, Duke Nukem. Also you can totally have a female protagonist and not be woke. She just needs to eye candy like Lara Croft in the OG Tomb Raiders.  

But she HAS to be hot for me to not be woke? Like I cant like Abby from The Last Of Us Part 2 and still not be woke?

Don't think to much into it. The "Woke" argument is literally bullshit and will vary from person to person.

It's literally a childish name-calling exercise for those who cannot or will not try and engage with something or someone on an intellectual level.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Around the Network
konnichiwa said:

It isn't Ironic, when was the last time you played a game that felt like conservative game or right winged? The last game I can remember that was called Racist was Resident Evil V because the zombies in the African country were black..

Many of them actually? I mean, I love civilization but the game is basically "you win when destroy inferior nations" either figuratively or literally 

The thing is although some have conservative undertones they are not ideological. Something can be conservative simply because the devs are describing the world they know without much thought process. In the same way, a game can be progressive and have left wing values without being particularly ideological

Ideologically conservative games are very rare, from my mind I can Call of Duty is very nationalists and glorify USA army



IcaroRibeiro said:
konnichiwa said:

It isn't Ironic, when was the last time you played a game that felt like conservative game or right winged? The last game I can remember that was called Racist was Resident Evil V because the zombies in the African country were black..

Many of them actually? I mean, I love civilization but the game is basically "you win when destroy inferior nations" either figuratively or literally 

The thing is although some have conservative undertones they are not ideological. Something can be conservative simply because the devs are describing the world they know without much thought process. In the same way, a game can be progressive and have left wing values without being particularly ideological

Ideologically conservative games are very rare, from my mind I can Call of Duty is very nationalists and glorify USA army

I would say the needle is more at the progressive side, I mean look to a game like Far Cry 5, I love that game..
But Ubisoft may say the enemy is a cult but when you play it it seems like you fighting against some white religious gun loving fanatics in some midwestern state...it is really on the nose.

COD is weird because the early ones also let you play with the russians and sometimes the Russian campaign was the best one + the last one feels more 
like the A-team + includes some supernatural elements...The realism is a bit gone, starts like a typical COD game but it changes quickly..









konnichiwa said:
Pemalite said:

Being woke means you prefer to read books, instead of burning them.
The Woke rubbish is just that... Rubbish. I.E. People without a brain-cell to think for themselves and just wish to follow all the other conservative sheep rather than put forth a genuine rebuttal/argument.

I mean that doesn't really mean anything when 'woke' 'inclusive' groups want to ban Harry Potter and tried so hard to cancell games like Legacy/Black Myth Wukong/stellar Blade etc...  I am sorry but if you go to university protests they are always trying very hard to cancell lectures from 'right' winged speakers. It is clear they don't want a debate, most just want to play the victim role    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NAKH8jdgm8

I think the most telling point is that you associate people who want to ban Harry Potter as woke.  Now why don't you tell us why you consider those groups as woke or would you put any group that wants to ban anything into that group, cancel a game because of whatever they feel is wrong with it or do you only include the groups you consider woke associated with the word.



Machiavellian said:
konnichiwa said:

I mean that doesn't really mean anything when 'woke' 'inclusive' groups want to ban Harry Potter and tried so hard to cancell games like Legacy/Black Myth Wukong/stellar Blade etc...  I am sorry but if you go to university protests they are always trying very hard to cancell lectures from 'right' winged speakers. It is clear they don't want a debate, most just want to play the victim role    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NAKH8jdgm8

I think the most telling point is that you associate people who want to ban Harry Potter as woke.  Now why don't you tell us why you consider those groups as woke or would you put any group that wants to ban anything into that group, cancel a game because of whatever they feel is wrong with it or do you only include the groups you consider woke associated with the word.

That's why I wrote in my first post that woke is hard to define and used the part you quoted 'inclusive' behind 'woke'






KLXVER said:
Machiavellian said:

If they are not the majority they sure are the ones making the loudest noise on the net.  I have not seen any game that has stuck to those basic references called woke. What I have seen a lot is that any game that goes against those references get labeled woke in a heartbeat and you only have to go to just about every internet forum to see the word thrown around like a giant hammer.

Well its not always about the game itself. Its about the people behind it. If a developer or a consultant on a game has said on social media that they dont like white dudes or just white people in general(which happens way too often), then why should I as a white person support that game? And developers who say shit like that is not going to have a straight white male as their hero. Because that would go against their woke agenda. White people are either evil or bumbling comic relief in these games.

If a developer or consultant said he doesn't like white people and decides to not put them a game, why would that be woke.  Would that not be racist? Now what if that same developer says, he doesn't like black or Asian people so he isn't going to put them in his game, would you still support that game?

Can you tell me what developer stated they do not like White people or white people in general since you stated this happen often but unless there is only one developer making a game, I find that hard to believe.

Do you need for the character to be a straight white male dude?  If a game doesn't have one of those requirements are you immediately believing that a team of probably hundreds are all woman, non white or gay deciding that this main character definitely needs to be something other than straight white dude.

It just seems diversity is really getting to you.  You do know that the reason you are seeing more diverse characters is because dev teams are made up of more diverse people.  Creative people probably getting tired of just doing dude bro 1000 so they do something different.  Is it threatening the status quo, you bet but then again, games are reaching a much bigger market today than they use to.