JRPGfan said:
Runa216 said:
I legitimately feel like we need to move on from the 'definition' of woke and start asking people, regardless of how they see 'wokeness', why they think it's a bad thing.
Because that's where we start to really peel off the mask and make it abundantly clear how callous and heartless and ignorant these people are.
Even if you think it's a case of 'forced representation ruining the integrity of the medium', I have to ask...how is that a bad thing? Change hurts sometimes. And it's been a boy's club for so long that if we need the artistic value of the medium to be taken seriously we NEED To diversify. We need non-traditional roles. we need to open up games to everyone. Women deserve to have unfiltered representation. Sometimes that means supermodel babes, sometimes that means homely badasses and neither are bad UNLESS you feel entitled to only have YOUR Fantasies fulfilled (As in, either playing as a strong muscly man or being able to gawk at the supermodel ass). If forced inclusion and woke themes are ruining the medium...then it WILL correct itself in time. If people genuinely do stop buying games that have progressive themes, the money hungry corporations will ABSOLUTELY stop making them, or at least find ways to cater to the insecure boys that are complaining.
The problem is a feeling of entitlement. Boys feel entitled to stare at girls or pretend to be masculine men. Boys feel entitled to be the only person who's sexuality or gender are valid.
And I think this is proven even by something like starfield giving you the OPTION to have trans pronouns. Not forcing it. Not making it a big deal. Just having an option so cis people can chose that option and non-cis people can chose whatever they want. I see no universe where adding options without taking away from anyone while broadening the horizons of the medium is a bad thing. Yet dudes will still get memed to hell over 'FUCKING PRONOUNS'. WE haven't even played Intergalactic or Witcher IV but people are bitching because 'ew, female protagonist I don't want to fuck and that's bad' or 'Ciri's mature now, She's no longer the teenager I want to fuck' (yuck, by the way).
So yeah, we need to get past what woke means and start asking people why they think it's a bad thing...because that's where the shittiness really starts to come out. And that's the ultimate direction the conversation is heading when people ask 'what is woke', because any time it's asked, they have to come to terms with the reality that they're actively stifling cultural progress for their own entitlement issues. or just straight up bigotry. |
You wouldn't listen to a explanation anyways.
You would twist words... give your own explanations for what your assumptions of people are (like in your post above).
Label people, with names instead.
This thread has been about, not just the "what is woke", but also people saying why they don't want it in games.
Your response has been to write posts like you just did, all thread long.
And apparently, you didn't take away anything anyone said (because their views don't matter to you).
This is just a thread for you to berate others.
Fact of the matter is, most of the world isn't as progressive as you are.
"If forced inclusion and woke themes are ruining the medium...then it WILL correct itself in time. If people genuinely do stop buying games that have progressive themes, the money hungry corporations will ABSOLUTELY stop making them,.." This is the hope, of the anti-woke side.
If enough games that are super woke, and or play bad (because of it), they at least get punished for making a bad game. Runa216 said:
at this point I just sort of hope the whole world burns if those are the values you and so many others like to valorize. |
Your take on this subject is really extreme.
You get that right? |
The hypocritical projection here genuinely makes it hard to even consider responding. I don't even know what to say when your strongest 'argument' is "All those things you called me out for...you do, actually!" It's the modern equivalent of "I know you are but what am I?"
I have read plenty of arguments, debates, points, and opinions and as a person who actually cares about people who don't look, feel, or act like me and can empathize with people who don't live my experience (I'm a blonde-haired, blue-eyed, white male that passes for cis and hetero), I've found almost none of them to have any merit. As A result I find it hard to argue most points because they're so far removed from reality or so AGGRESSIVELY ignorant of the facts and context. Most of the points, not just here but all over the internet, are so astoundingly foolish and devoid of any logic or backing that there's no room to reach some sort of common ground.
For example, did you know some people are STILL Saying Imane Khalief (I don't know if that's how you spell her name) is actually a man? Even though she was born with a vagina and is by all means a woman who just has some elevated testosterone? Yeah, there's no argument there, these people are just flat out wrong. "You're factually wrong" isn't enough to convince anyone because they're so ingrained with what they WANT to believe (Again, the simple, wrong answer) that facts elude them.
And you are no better. You keep saying shit and most of it is so foolish I don't bother directly addressing it. From what I Can tell you are one of those 'if it doesn't appeal to me PERSONALLY then it has no right to be part of the medium' types. You encapsulate everything I've been ranting about, even if not a 1:1 example.
So I don't even begin to know how to argue with you. You don't like a thing. Good for you. Would you like a cookie or something? You don't want to see unattractive women and appear to feel that this is an affront to you personally and the medium as a whole. What do I even say to that? "Okay, then don't play it and go fap to some gacha waifu game"? I mean, that's the answer, but instead of simply saying 'this isn't for me' and moving on, you seem to think it's ruining the medium. I genuinely don't know how to teach you that you are not the only person who's tastes matter.
I don't like Phoenix wright, I personally think everything about those games is dumb as hell. I hate the writing, I hate the style, I hate the Saturday morning cartoon version of how legal proceedings work. I hate it so much...but I don't bitch about it because I see others like it. My roommates love it. And I'm glad it exists because it means that the medium is healthy. IT's not for me but it has an audience.
Same with Monster Hunter. Those games are monstrously popular and I do not understand why. I hate the controls, I hate the gameplay loop, I hate the animations and on a personal level I hate hunting (I even feel bad about it in games like Red Dead), but I don't think those games shouldn't exist. I don't see the appeal but they make a lot of people happy so I am glad that they exist.
I don't tend to like a lot of indie games that are poignant and deep and meaningful unless they also have really fun gameplay like Celeste. But again, I'm incredibly glad they exist because Video Games are an art form and that means EVERYONE gets to express themselves and feel represented. That means everyone deserves to feel like they matter or that the world is listening.
Sometimes that means bald women. Sometimes that means various ethnicities that aren't what you're used to. Sometimes that means people who aren't straight, don't identify with the sex they were born with, or don't engage in traditional paradigms. That is what 'woke' is, the idea that change needs to happen to make the world a better place for everyone. It's not everyone else's fault that the people this medium primarily catered to for decades are insecure, selfish, entitled brats. It's not a gay black trans woman's fault that a straight white male doesn't want anyone else to sit at the same table as him. THAT is why being 'woke' is a good thing, because we want the table to offer a seat to anyone and everyone who wants a meal, not just the fuckers who are already fat off gorging for the last 30 years.
THAT is why I'm always so fucking angry about all this. I'm so sick of hearing entitled brats complaining that others get to feel like they matter so they frame it as oppression on their part so they can feel justified in making a hostile environment for anyone who dares approach.
My Console Library:
PS5, Switch, XSX
PS4, PS3, PS2, PS1, WiiU, Wii, GCN, N64 SNES, XBO, 360
3DS, DS, GBA, Vita, PSP, Android
Essay Pro