It is a game where the characters, voice actors or staff etc. were chosen based on the color of their skin, sex, sexual orientation or identity.
It is a game where the characters, voice actors or staff etc. were chosen based on the color of their skin, sex, sexual orientation or identity.
KLXVER said:
I agree with some of what you are saying. However, do you believe there is no truth at all to what any of them are saying? The gamers complaining about a game being woke is not what makes me not interested in it. Its more the developers or publishers insulting gamers for not liking or buying their games and calling them out and shaming them for it. Its disgusting. If you dont like what they are saying, then ignore them. Most developers do just ignore the more mean comments and focus on real criticism. But there are some developers that just cant shut the fuck up and let the game speak for itself. Developers can do whatever they want with the product they are making and we the consumers have the right to buy it or not buy it for whatever reason. Its obviously working as of late though. Being branded "woke" is almost a certain kiss of death these days. It might not be fair, but I think there is more to it than that. I think gamers are just sick of developers and journalists working against them more than they work for them. |
Tbh...Not really, Lol. The world is diverse but videogames are still primarily led by straight males (not a criticism), it does not bother me in the slightest to see different types of people, I find it more interesting. Also a lot of these "ugly" characters are often purposely manipulated screenshots of a character in an unfortunate pose which can be done to everyone just to say "ugly, woke" and grift some more.
I'm tired of every single game being labelled as woke, so I've tried to ignore it, I never took it seriously but it's even more clear today than ever before that the label has absolutely zero meaning, it is tossed onto practically everything, that is why I mentioned even those who used to call stuff "woke" are defending titles being accused of being "woke" now...Can't they see how ridiculous the whole thing has became?
I don't see many publishers shaming gamers because publishers tend to stay quiet, I have seen individual developers fight back but I don't really blame them. Sure it could be "unprofessional" but it must be annoying as fuck to see something you've put years of work and love into, get attacked for such stupid reasons, not only the game but the developers also being hounded by angry idiots. Developers aren't just machines working on products that we love, they are human beings, who put a lot of love and work into their creations, criticisms are fine and often well received but screaming about woke and female protags or pronouns is not legit criticism Imo and it's often just being a dick.
The developer may be acting unprofessional to respond but what about all the people being assholes to the developer? If someone was hounding my Twitter account over stupid shit I too would tell them to fuck off, Lol. Most developers do ignore the assholes like you said but there's literally thousands of developers, there is going to be a few who buckle under the pressure of hundreds of idiots flooding their accounts with garbage, in my view, the emotional reaction is understandable even if not considered professional.
We the consumers have the right to buy it or not buy it for whatever reason.
Agreed...So I wish these dudes would just not buy the game instead of hounding developers and rage-baiting.
Being branded "woke" is almost a certain kiss of death these days.
Plenty of titles have been branded as woke and gone on to be very successful, as I pointed out though, those grifters quickly move on from the titles that are actually good because they can't form a narrative out of it. I really doubt that the larger general audience of videogames even knows about this whole stupid drama, the majority of millions of gamers aren't spending their days as invested in gaming media as you or I, as people on forums or who follow gaming users, I believe the majority don't care or even know what is happening, I have no evidence to back this up of course but I seriously doubt that for example, the majority of gamers even notice the pronouns in Starfield, Baldur's Gate, etc.
We on forums or Twitter do not represent the majority, we are simply a vocal minority.
Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 14 December 2024Well first of all, it seems only English language people (North America predominately) cares about 'Woke'.
Here in the Netherlands it's not really a thing and I believe in most of Europe it's not. Let alone in other regions of the world. So I think the first thing we should (can?) agree on, it's not a Universal thing. So if a game fails because of 'woke' outside of North America, probably something else must be going on.
Still though, as an outsider looking at it, it appears the main aspect of 'wokeness' that is received as negative as I see it is: 'Preaching'. It's the 'I tick checkboxes, therefore I'm morally in the right' kind of thing. Nobody likes a nanny-state, nor anyone else nanny-ing people how to think.
I think it's also the exaggeration thing that gets people rolling their eyes. Let me give an example:
Here in the Netherlands we have the pride parade for decades. Just a day parading boats through Amsterdam. It's essentially kind of a carnival having fun. If you like it, join in! But nobody thought by themselves "let's do a whole month, government building wave rainbow flags, educational centers have themes, etc etc. If you don't like that sort of exaggeration that means you Must be Phobic to whatever and are morally in the wrong."
“Woke”, like all of those vague derogatory terms, is a word used by people who want to hide the fact that they’re losing an argument, or can’t make a good point to begin with.
It’s kind of like when dumb people use the mysterious “they” in arguments to try and accuse someone of manipulating things in a certain way, without actually accusing anyone - because if they actually pointed it out then their argument would be falsifiable and easily dismissed. Or when they use the vague “we” instead of “I” as a way to show how their feelings are the correct view because “we all think a certain way” rather than the factual or logical position.
All these tactics are used frequently by conspiracy theorists and intellectual cowards.
If the actual definition of “woke” was used, all the arguments using it would sound a bit absurd. First, it applied specifically to black people, who were aware of the white liberal motivation for being open and defensive of black rights—particularly of the African American culture, because their association only goes so far as it’s convenient. Becoming a face of the struggle, reaping all the rewards of being virtuous, getting the credit, without having to really be a victim of the struggle. More or less, they’re in it for sanctimonious reasons (or virtue signalling), to make them appear like righteous saviours so other white liberals will treat them with reverence.
To use a parallel to describe “woke”. There’s a compilation book about a guy who warned others about the sanctimonious sorts who showed how devoutly religious and righteous they are, to gain favour in the eyes of the public. In reality, these sanctimonious sorts weren’t particularly righteous at all, and their devotion amounted to lip service only, as they idolized and lived a life of vice and sin, while pointing the finger at others based on cherry-picked values. In case the parallel is not clear - Jesus was woke to the game of the Pharisees and Sadducees. The people who use the term “woke” as an accusation, ironically, tend to revere Jesus with their lips and consider themselves followers of Christianity, while considering core virtues as being pride, greed, hatred of the unfortunate, hatred and fear of neighbours, valuing violence - and at the same time, being disgusted by those “communists” (as they call everyone left of Ayn Rand) who make arguments for a more fair and just society—not too unlike how Jesus argued for redistribution, equity, equality, anti-violence, and loving your neighbours.
In other words, I think a lot of profoundly stupid and ignorant people use the word “woke” because they have no idea what they’re talking about, but they want to sound like they have a solid argument because “woke is bad. If you’re woke, you’re a bad person. So, since I called you on being woke by my definition, you’re bad and wrong. Mm-kay.”
Last edited by Jumpin - on 14 December 2024I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.
KLXVER said: Its been like this for a while now. The people preaching about inclusion are usually the most vicious in the way they talk about other people. |
If that were true, then it is driven by a lot of people being exhausted and frustrated with all the hateful posts about nothing.
People are calling Druckmann Cuckman for having the main character be a woman shaving her head. People are being hateful over nothing. A lot of people are either painfully uninformed, or just blatantly spreading hate over anything that doesn't fit their box.
Then they act like they're the victim when they get called out for their egregious behavior.
CD PROJEKT RED has completely been hit with the DEI ugly stick. What the fuck is this Ciri? And her voice actor is different too.
— Endymion (@EndymionYT) December 13, 2024
I’m watching this live right now and I am not thrilled. I’m sad dude 😑 pic.twitter.com/63P09AGAsu
I've been trying to define it myself. 😕 I really don't know at this point. We need a new way to describe what they are going on about I consider it to be when activists put activism before the product but often lack of talent or finese can end up do ling the same, DA Veilgaurd wasn't particularly more woke than DA Inquisition but it lacked talent and nuance in the delivery of it's message. The writing was shit, everything was forced and really on the nose but again, no more "woke" the DA: I. I really think there are better ways to do it, if you're trans in the world of Thedas are you really going to under go surgery which is barbaric in a world where magic exists that allows for the same process in a much less dangerous way but that's aside the point.
It seems to be on some level what people don't agree with visually, like if Stellar Blade left everything the same but made Eve a lesbian, they wouldn't complain. They'd say this is woke done right but if they were to make Eve ugly and do the same, then there is a problem for them.
I'm so very sick of it at this point, if everything is woke then nothing is. I'll make my own mind up on wheter the delivery of the social commentary and messaging deserves to be in the game and wheter a character fits their setting.
When it hits things I love very dearly I can see who the fakers are and who is sincere when they label something as woke. Ciri is now woke, these people did not play TW3 or Blood and wine. Fake fans who don't care. After the TGA and the uproar of everything, I can clearly see these people are just up for railing against everything popular and they don't have any critical thought at all, all they can do is point and go "wooooke DEI, non-buynery". Fuck 'em.
the-pi-guy said:
-Snip- |
Endymion 😂😭
This is another one of those grifters who I had never heard of until this whole "WOKE" shit and he has built his fanbase from that, another fun fact about Endymion is he is in the lowest tier of GamingLeaksAndRumours for credibility (I.E. not at all) because he makes shit up and tries to pass it off as a rumour, whenever a rumour of his is posted there he gets absolutely ripped into by that subreddit, it's fucking hilarious.
Edit - My mistake, he isn't in any tier at all, not even "Tier 5 - Pretty Much Clickbait (for leakers who are almost never correct and potentially just make things up)" that's how bad he is considered, I'm mentioning this of course because it's just more evidence of a grifter, if it's not the culture wars rage-bait it's making shit up to try to look like an insider.
Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 14 December 2024the-pi-guy said: "Third genders" are thousands of years old. A lot of the terminology is new in English, but there are tons of cultures that have recognized more genders than 2. |
Really? tons? OK, tell us 5 cultures.
Last edited by JohnVG - on 14 December 2024JohnVG said:
Really? tons? OK, tell us 5 cultures. |
Exploring the history of gender expression
>Long before Cook’s arrival in Hawaii, a multiple-gender tradition existed among the Kanaka Maoli indigenous society. The mahu referred to biological males or females who inhabited a gender role somewhere between, or encompassing both, the masculine and feminine.
>In pre-colonial Andean culture, the Incas worshipped the chuqui chinchay, a dual-gendered god. Third-gender ritual attendants or shamans performed sacred rituals to honor this god.
>Anthropological research indicates well over 100 instances of diverse gender expression in Native American tribes at the time of early European contact.
>Even in the heart of Catholic Italy, in Naples, there is a centuries-old phenomenon of femminielli, those assigned male at birth who dress and behave as women. They are respected figures and traditionally believed to bring good luck; a cultural tradition that may date back to pagan rituals of crossdressing, or eunuch priests.
India (~2000 years ago):
https://www.trp.org.in/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/ARSS-Vol.4-No.1-Jan-June-2015-pp.17-19.pdf
"A male child is produced by a greater quantity of male seed, a female child by the prevalence of the female; if both are equal, a third-sex child or boy and girl twins are produced; if either are weak or deficient in quantity, a failure of conception results"
the-pi-guy said:
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Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 14 December 2024